Newbie: Getting started

[austenozzy]

Hello there

Complete newbie question here, sorry. If there are stickies or pages that I’ve missed, please feel free to redirect me.

Background: We’re moving to Cornwall in the near future. As such, it would be rude not to get out on the water! I have done a bit of dinghy sailing in the past (up to old level 4 twenty years ago, and a refresher course up to new level 2 a couple of years ago), and a tiny bit of bigger boat sailing as crew some years ago. So I have a low & rusty level of knowledge; just enough to be a complete liability.

I’d like to get onto the water safely, and learn the basics properly to avoid bad habits. Which of the RYA courses are the best ‘bang per buck’ in terms of covering the essentials at a virtual beginner level? I’m looking at the Day Skipper practical and theory courses, and thinking they’re about right. Or would Competent Crew be a better bet to start off? I will probably have access to a 23 footer that belongs to a family friend, and some experienced sailors in the in-laws that are happy to come out with me and help me along.

Any advice gratefully received!

Cheers

Oz

 

[bitbaltic]

I'd start with competent crew. There's not much difference between that and Day Skipper but, when I did my DS having done CC beforehand, I found myself in with a bunch of other DS candidates who had no sailing experience at all but fancies a crack at flotilla chartering. It was pretty odd seeing would-be skippers staring at winches, halyards, travellers and so on as if those things had just landed from the moon. There's something to be said for starting at the beginning and learning the ropes.

Having said that, if you plan to own and insure a boat, you may struggle to get insurance without either some previous experience or, failing that, a DS ticket. So you may want to skip CC in order to get the ticket for these purposes. As I said, there's not a lot of difference in course content.

Cheers

H

 

[VicS]

Hello there

Complete newbie question here, sorry. If there are stickies or pages that I’ve missed, please feel free to redirect me.

Background: We’re moving to Cornwall in the near future. As such, it would be rude not to get out on the water! I have done a bit of dinghy sailing in the past (up to old level 4 twenty years ago, and a refresher course up to new level 2 a couple of years ago), and a tiny bit of bigger boat sailing as crew some years ago. So I have a low & rusty level of knowledge; just enough to be a complete liability.

I’d like to get onto the water safely, and learn the basics properly to avoid bad habits. Which of the RYA courses are the best ‘bang per buck’ in terms of covering the essentials at a virtual beginner level? I’m looking at the Day Skipper practical and theory courses, and thinking they’re about right. Or would Competent Crew be a better bet to start off? I will probably have access to a 23 footer that belongs to a family friend, and some experienced sailors in the in-laws that are happy to come out with me and help me along.

Any advice gratefully received!

Cheers

Oz

Personally I would feel inclined to go in at the D.S level. With your past experience you might find that much of the comp crew stuff is very familiar and you will feel that you are marking time rather when you could be progressing to DS level.
Get a little bit of sailing in with your friend if you can. Do the DS shorebased course and I think you will soon find things come back to you and anything there might have been new to you in the comp crew course you will soon pick up.

 

[trapezeartist]

Go for Dazed Kipper. I jumped straight in at that level, justifying it to myself and the school because I had plenty of dinghy experience and a bit of crewing on other people's big boats. Everyone on my course was doing DS together so I've not seen the content of Comp Crew, but I suspect it won't cover navigation and the safety elements will be more about personal safety than boat safety. With your background, read a good learn-to-sail book before you go and I'm sure you'll be find.

You're a lucky man, moving to Cornwall.

 

[dleroc]

I would definately do CC first. Having recently finished Day Skipper theory and having done CC many years ago, you cannot beat the know how it gives you on winds, rope handling, weather and general safety.

 

[richardabeattie]

Read a bit, sail a bit as a crew member and then go for Dazed Kipper. Remember the two fundamental rules

1. Don't fend off with your foot.
2. Don't push on a rope.
3. Navigation includes looking out of the window.

Never trust an economist to count beans.

 

[Searush]

I borrowed an RYA course book from the library & worked thro the exercises. All the info you need is in there plus exercises to check you really have understood it. None of it is rocket science & the fact that you have done some dinghy sailing is a huge plus in terms of making the boat go & understanding what will happen when you pull a rope or push a tiller.

Make sure you have the basic safety kit, charts, compass, vhf, oilies etc & go put it all into practice if you have someone experienced to go with you & stop you making the dafter errors. Yachts are easier than dinghies in many ways as they react more slowly & predictably, but they are a lot heavier to fend off if you try to berth too fast so keep feet & hands well out of the way!

Of course you will make mistakes, but most will not be that serious & all offer an excellent learning opportunity to help you get it right next time.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Find a training school that runs joint courses of both CC and DS. Tell them that you're not sure which you should do and take the tutors advice once he has had a few hours to assess you. When I did my CC there were others on the course who were doing DS and I learnt far, far more than just the CC. It wasn't about getting a bit of paper; it was about getting the most from a week on a boat.

 

[Boo2]

1. Don't fend off with your foot.

Sorry, why ?

Boo2

 

[Ravi]

Well, You obviously know how to sail because you have got your full dinghy qualifications (twice!).

And, now want to learn how to run a wet caravan. Great.

You say you have done a tiny bit of bigger boat sailing years ago. You sound like a modest chap, so I suspect that you know your sticky up thing from the sticky down thing. Comp Crew will each you how to jump ashore and moor up, tie a bowline and a few other obvious things. The cost of a Comp Crew course will probably be equivalent to the annual membership of a yacht club. I suggest that you join the nearest yacht club with a decent bar and volunteer as crew. You will learn far more and have a better time over a year than you will over a few day's competent crew training. A bit of volunteer crewing (especially for club racing) and sitting around the yacht club bar will teach you 10 times more than any CC course.

Day skipper is useful because it teaches you the fundamentals of navigation. The RYA syllabus is a rather fuddy duddy as the RYA think that electronic chart plotters are the newfangled invention of some latter day devil but, on the whole, it is a useful and interesting experience. It is definitely worth doing your RYA Dazed Kipper theory before you do your Day Skipper practical. It will teach you everything that you need to know (as well as what captain Cook needed to know). After that, your Day Skipper practical should be nothing more than a fun holiday.

Of course, if during this time you have been hanging around the yacht club, you will have had a dozen different skippers telling you their own 'one and only' correct way of doing things which will be far more educational and entertaining than any RYA course. The Day Skipper certificate is useful for chartering etc., though.

My top tip would be to take your 'other half' out to the Med for a sailing flotilla holiday. One you have lured her into a false sense of security about the idyllic world of sailing, strike quick and buy a yacht. Ideally, have the purchase papers lined up to sign when you arrive off the plane. A few months later when you take her out in an F8 off the Scillies, it will be too late for her to do anything!

Mind you, I am divorced!

 

[Uricanejack]

You are probably already a useful crew member.
Once upon a time I used to teach an entry level sailing course for the CYA its intent was you would be able to skipper a boat in familiar waters by day. Probably something similar to day skipper.

I would add a strong + to all those suggesting a day skipper course. A night school or something similar on theory would be good way of getting a basic idea of a lot of the theory behind the practical. Giving you a greater understanding of what you do on a practical course.

I will differ from many on the electronics. Learn the old fashioned basics first. If you understand the basics the modern tech will be easy. Then by the electronics you want and read the instructions.

 

[dylanwinter]

save your m oney

sailing is easy and safe

forget the training

you know enough already

buy this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shipmate-...ng_Goods_Sailing_Boats_ET&hash=item417dce8681

or something similar

go sailing

enjoy yourself

Dylan

 

[Skylark]

Take a look at the RYA website and read the definition of both CC and DS. Based upon course content, I'm sure that you'll be able to make a good judgement as to which is for you. Even better, for just a few pounds, buy the course note books.

http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/courses/sailcruising/Pages/Competentcrew.aspx

http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/courses/sailcruising/Pages/Dayskipper.aspx

I also strongly agree that doing the DS Shorebased course before the practical is a good approach.

Many on here don't subscribe to the need for paper qualifications but I do believe in their merit.

Depending upon your domestic arrangements, doing a course in warm sunshine (keeping the tidal option) with a spouse can indeed be a smart move.

What ever you decide, good luck with your endeavours and welcome to the forum. A wealth of knowledge and experience on all manner of boaty issues is given freely by many.

 

[Paddingtonbear]

It is alright for you Dylan, you are very confident to the point of foolishness sometimes and have been doing "it" for along time. I have also been doing it a long time (since 1962 at least) but am lacking confidence and generally pretty useless but wish to try and enjoy boating. I own a motor boat but am struggling to get any formal training as all RYA training seems to involve lunatics charging about in ribs, in the company of 'instructors' who insist on wearing those stupid blue glasses. It has no relevance to me and my old wooden chugger. I am not very sociable so clubs are a no no and also my politics preclude me from enjoying the company of the Colonel Blimps, chavs, crypto facists and UKIP members who seem to prop up the bar in most boating clubs.

 

[bitbaltic]

my politics preclude me from enjoying the company of the Colonel Blimps, chavs, crypto facists and UKIP members who seem to prop up the bar in most boating clubs.

 

[doug748]

Training courses are a grim business if you are not the chummy sort. You might find you are trapped for a week with a smug git and 3 sporty idiots who are all trying to prove they don't really need the instruction.

Much better to get out on the water with a bit of help from a pal. You will soon be off on your own and will learn quickly and better. Local evening classes (if they still exist) are a good way of meeting like minded people and will give the a good grounding in the theory of the thing, don't take a lot of the nav stuff too seriously but it is good practice.

In the fullness of time you may spend some time in the marina at St Peter Port. Every August you will see sailors RYA'd up to the eyebrows with 36 foot boats, dithering - is the force 5/6 forecast is suitable for the dash back to the safety of the Solent? You will be in like Flynn, having made your own decisions from the start.

 

[Lakesailor]

Good points.

If you are a certificate collector the RYA is your choice.

 

[PaulMcC]

I would definitely recommend finding a way to go out a few times on a decent sized boat and then doing Day Skipper. The difficult bit I found was finding people and boats to go out on to get that initial experience. Luckily I'm a civil servant so joined the CS sailing club. There are a number of more virtual sailing clubs around. The upside is you don't need to prop up the bar and beg for a space. The downside is that you will be out with random people and the skipper, while qualified and probably pretty decent, will not be there specifically to instruct. If you are London based there are a number of groups who get together through the meetup system (google it). I've never been so can't comment on what you'll find.

 

[PhillM]

Like you I was coming back to sailing, so I took the Comp Crew course only to find that by the end of the first morning, it was all covered. I then spent the rest of the weekend enjoying the sailing but completely frustrated.

At the end of the weekend, I talked to the school (Sun Sail) and they gave me (for free) a half day intro into DS theory mid that week. being ex dinghy I "got it" easily (I did a lot of reading that week too mind!) so when I went back for the second weekend I was put up to the DS course. I could have qualified that weekend but agreed that a third weekend would be a good idea, so I did the three day weekend again, so that i really did have the night hours and enough experience.

Basically, I ended up with a mix and match and it worked for me.

Another approach would have been to go on the "start yachting" 2 day course and see how I did, then decide on a course.

I would NOT Have stuck to a 5 day classroom course before going sailing, i like to read the books and test myself, but that's just my personality.

 

[Sandy]

I’d like to get onto the water safely, and learn the basics properly to avoid bad habits. Which of the RYA courses are the best ‘bang per buck’ in terms of covering the essentials at a virtual beginner level? I’m looking at the Day Skipper practical and theory courses, and thinking they’re about right. Or would Competent Crew be a better bet to start off? I will probably have access to a 23 footer that belongs to a family friend, and some experienced sailors in the in-laws that are happy to come out with me and help me along.

Hi Oz

Welcome to the forum.

As you can see there are many ways to do things and what you decide to do is up to you. Going down the RYA training route is one strand in learning how to sail going out with others is another; you need to use all the strands.

I returned to sailing, I did my DS some 30 years ago, as I am getting far too old to be soaking wet and cold on a mountain and decided to use the CC course as a way of easing myself back into the sport. A fun five days on the water without the issues of command to think about just sailing and brushing up on old skills. I followed that up with YM theory, well worth doing, and DS practical and am currently "mile building" for YM Offshore.

It might be worth considering how far you want to go with sailing, is it just pottering about along the coast or going further, and if you want your skills validated.

I can recommend Plymouth Sailing School http://www.plymsail.co.uk/, give Richard Bown a call and chat things over with him.

Whatever you do enjoy it.

Sandy