Newbie Boat Selection Advice

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Ferring

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Hi everybody, just joined the forum as I intend to get into sailing upon my retirement in a few weeks.
I have already provisionally scheduled RYA Competent Crew Training for June and will have support of my daughter and son in law who both did Day Skipper training in the Med.
I am looking for a 27-29ft cruising yacht that is manageable for a newcomer but able to coastal cruise and channel hop. I intend to join Arun YC on my return form overseas and take drying moorings there, so a bilge or lifting keel is required.
The boats I was initially drawn to and within my price range were:
1) Westerly Griffon Mk 11
2) Mirage 28

But a few adverts for these made me consider stretching the budget for more comfort:
3) Westerly Konsort
4) Gibsea 282


I would appreciate any advice on the above or any other suitable contenders around the GBP15K mark.

Thanks in advance
Ken
 
You are spoilt for potential choice. Any one of those boats will do what you want, plus many, many others of similar size and type. They are not all the same in terms of sailing ability, comfortable, accommodation etc, but just as when they were new builders tried to differentiate their products while still appealing to a broad market.

This unlikely to be your first boat so perhaps choose a popular boat that might be easier to sell when you move on. The challenge when buying a boat this age is finding one that is in good usable condition and does not need any major expenditure. Things like new engines, sails, upholstery, electronics cost money that is out of proportion to purchase price and value. When you have more experience you will have a much better idea of what you like and don't like which will help you in future purchases.
 
Best not to get too fixated on one design as you are looking at 20 year old boats.

Best to find a clean, tidy, solid example of a popular make. Look for solid basics, new/ refurbished engine. Good sails, (ideally newer than the boat) standing rigging replaced, clean tidy, unworn running rigging. Maybe new batteries/ upgraded charging regime, good basic instruments so GPS, DSC Vhf Radio, Log, depth all working as intended. Look for no visible wear on blocks, lines etc, all running smoothly. Don't be swayed by flashy looking 20 year old Radar, or vast numbers of old sails.

That way you should have minimum costs needed to just use her. If she comes with things such as a dinghy, outboard, lifejackets etc then it could be a sail away deal.

You're basically looking for something that can just go the day you buy her and could be sold very easily if/ when you decide to change boats.

Best to be visibly looking, ring local brokers and ask what they have but at that price point avoid the flashier places. Ask round at the yacht club. Someone will know someone. There is a nice westerly tiger for sale by someone in our club for example.

Above all, don't rush. You have the course to do, the right boat will come up, just don't buy the first one that jumps out at you.
 
Like you we lived in RSA and loved it there. Difficult to settle in the UK. So we lived aboard. For the amount that you want to spend on your first Yacht...Do not expect to get anything that will in all reality be very strong out there in the oceans-it can suddenly turn very nasty indeed. If you can afford to spend more then go up to the £30,000-00 and you will be well away.

We bought a Catamaran. Fast,lots of room, settles on the bottom (no need for lifting keels) and for the family no real heeling.

Good luck.
 
I was in the market a year ago with slightly different requirements. Sadler 29 is similar to the konsort.

However as someone has mentioned above the most important thing will be condition. Unless you like mould and diesel smell a lot of the boats you will view will be non starters. I would get a short list of boats and then view as many as possible. If you ask on here someone will offer to take you for a sail on just about any model.

When I found my 20 year old boat I asked when they had replaced the upholstery as it looked brand new. Upon the answer that it was the original I knew it was well looked after!
 
Ferring said:
Thanks for the feedback so far.
Any more specific recommendations about particular boats would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

The problem with recommendations is that you usually get just the boat that the individual has owned or would like to own, which is not a lot of use. Very few people have experience of a wide range of boats so they have little on which to make a comparison.

If you stick to the well known designs you can't really go wrong in terms of basic capability to do the things you want. The boats you are looking at have been around for over 30 years, many doing exactly what you plan.

Concentrate on condition and you will find the right boat, but in your price range you are going to see a lot of frogs before you find your prince.
 
Thanks for additional feedback.

Rivonia
I presume from your user name you lived in that area of Joberg :) I was a Durbanite myself. We also had a Labrador similar to your avatar that we brought with us to UK 3 years ago. Unfortunately she developed cancer and had to be put down a few weeks ago aged 13. she would have loved being on board with me :(
 
I would also suggest you consider what you actually want to do with it. If you are really into and enjoy the "sailing" part of ownership then buying a boat that is slightly more biased towards performance may be more rewarding for you, however if enjoying the destination is more important then something with a few more creature comforts (you're not going to get a whole lot anyhow in that size) may be more appealing. As has been suggested have a really good look around your (and others) local club and speak to as many people as you can, and most will only be to happy to show you around their boats, if not actually give you a ride in them. Just beware of the fixer upper. You can sink an unbelievable amount of money into sorting things out, money that will never be recovered in a subsequent sale. For your first boat buy something that can be sailed as is, if you find you really love her and she's a keeper then lavish her with all the trimmings....... Put it this way, are you looking for a mistress or a wife? :)
 
Thanks Triassic; mistress sounds fun until the wife finds out :encouragement
My previous hobby in SA was 4*4 over-landing and pretty hectic trails in an old Toyota Land Cruiser, which I kitted out to high levels. So I know what it is like throwing money into "old toys for boys". My wife enjoyed the over-landing but no interest in the trails, hope I can convince her to try sailing. If not my daughter and son in law are dead keen and RYA day skipper qualified anyway.
I can't seem to get as worked up about touring off road Europe as I did in Africa, hence time to try something different.
 
All very good advice so far. Just beware that owner and brokers can have an unrealistic ideas about the condition and value of their boat. You will see decent examples of good, well maintained boats for the same price as neglected ones! Take your time, look at lots of boats and remember that it is a buyer's market!
 
Ken

You have been given some excellent advice already.

My advice would be to join a club and sail on other peoples boats to gain some knowledge and experience. Many owners are always looking for an extra crew. This knowledge and friendship will assist you in your quest to buy a boat.

Do try and buy a well known brand in top condition as it will cost you less overall and be easier to sell in the future. Brands like Westerly, Moody and Sadler all have boats that will suit you size and price range. Continental boats like Beneteau, Jeaneau, Dufour, Bavaria, etc are built slightly lighter, but could still suit. Check out if there is an owners association e.g. http://www.westerly-owners.co.uk/, http://www.moodyowners.net/moa_home.shtml, http://www.sadlerandstarlight.co.uk/ as they will have plenty of advice on models, forums to ask questions and classified adverts.

Just remember it is very much a buyers market at the moment and when you do find a suitable boat to get it surveyed as this will tell you of many structural problems you may have no idea of.

Best of luck and enjoy your sailing.
 
Ferring said:
Thanks for additional feedback.

Rivonia
I presume from your user name you lived in that area of Joberg :) I was a Durbanite myself. We also had a Labrador similar to your avatar that we brought with us to UK 3 years ago. Unfortunately she developed cancer and had to be put down a few weeks ago aged 13. she would have loved being on board with me :(
Click to expand...

Yes that was where we lived. The picture is of our Lab TOBY, sadly also gone to doggy heaven. Toby loved being a boat dog. I sincerely wish you and yours all the very best.
 
Thanks again to all who have offered such sound advice.
I seem to have been aligned with some of it as I have already visited a local yacht club and met some friendly people (already roping me in to assist with safety boat duties for their dinghy events. Which seems a great way to get to know the river entry and local conditions). I will apply for membership before I return to UK. I have also penciled in RYA course dates and done a lot of reading on the websites about different boats and their pros and cons. I also have a feel for market prices.
What I don't have a clue about is the real practical difference in performance some of the reading material talks about.
But I guess the key points learnt from here are to buy a popular model that allows me the option of selling and moving on if the desire takes me. This has me thinking to drop down in size to 25/26/27ft range as a starter and if the urge takes me upgrade in a coupe of years.
I always intended to have a full survey before committing to any purchase and I guess the real work starts when I get home and start viewing and hoping to be a guest on some boats.
 
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All the practical advice has been given, so the only thing I'd add is to look with your head and buy with your heart. The right boat will check out with your head - everything works or can be sorted for an acceptable amount of money and time, but then there's something else. She'll wink at you and you'll want to wink back. At that point, it's time to get the cheque book out.

A boat is like a woman. One that's technically not quite perfect but has that certain je ne sais quoi will make you happier than one that ticks all the boxes but leaves you cold.
 
You mentioned the Gibsea 282, this is just an updated version of the Gibsea 84, one of which I have for sale on ApolloDuck :) If we were to come to an agreement, I would of course be more than happy to help you get on your feet with your new purchase.
 
Hello Ken

I went throught the same process some 3 years ago and went for a Mirage 28.

The Griffon my "hot" contender but I went for the Mirage 28 as it gave me just a wee bit more room and I liked the look of them.

Spend time looking at lots of boats you will find that within a few thousand pounds there will be boats that are like dumps and others that are in fantastic condition.

Good luck on your search.
 
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Thanks again to all for the advice.

Dedwards, a few questions please, if you don't mind.
How does the Gibsea 84 handle? Is she forgiving enough for a novice? Does she take drying moorings OK?
Please PM me details of your boat.
 
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