New Windlass - which one!

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Andy and Lyn

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I've promised myself a new electric windlass to replace my old manual one - having narrowed it down to two (I think) they are:

SOUTH PACIFIC 700 Mighty
LEWMAR PRO-SERIES 1000

Buget approx £600 - the above two seem to fit the spec - its for my Westerley Renown (10M) mainly around central to eastern Med area.

Any comments/observations on the above short-list would be welcome - comment positive or otherwise welcomed.:)
 
We have a Lewmar 1000 which isn't a patch on the Lofrans Cayman we had on a previous boat. The Lewmar doesn't have a seperate gypsy for rope and isn't nearly as powerful. Personally i'd pay a bit more for a really solid winch.
 
Agree with the Lofrans recommendation. The Cayman is one of the most common on charter boats. You will use your windlass almost every day and you need a good one. Apart from changing the control box once (not expensive or difficult) ours has worked perrfectly for 9 years.
 
I recently found myself in exactly the same situation, wanting to replace the manual windlass for electric, but for us on a Westerly Discus.

I asked everyone I met how reliable/good their windlass was and came to the conclusion that I must buy a Lofrans. Thinking back we have never seen a broken Lofrans, but plenty of Lewmar's. Maybe the new ones are better but I preferred to stick with what my survey said.

So I purchased a Kobra model which upon close inspection is beautifully engineered. I paid £850 but was able to claim the VAT back as I exported it to Turkey (as BA hold luggage). This bought the price down to not too much more than your budget. Shop around though as prices vary wildly.

Hope this helps.

Anyone want to buy a S&L manual windlass, one careful owner (and then I got it). Collection only. Location: Turkey.
 
We have a Lofrans Airon, 9 years old now. Think it is the 700W version.
There is a 1000W version.(it does have the separate rope gypsy too)

Motor size would depend on how much chain you want to carry.

We only draw 1.5m so can often get in to shallower waters, inshore of some of the bigger boats and do not carry much chain. If in a busy area you might be forced into deeper water and need a bit more scope, so if buying new would most likely go for the 1000W version.
 
After reading a windlass test in an UK boating magazine I am planning to purchase a Southern Pacific windlass which came out tops in that report - in my case I am looking at the VS1000 which is a vertical one. One of the outstanding features I liked about the technical concept is the use of "efficient spur gears instead of traditional worm gears which can reduce up to 30% ~ 50% of motor power consumption" (from Southern Pacific's website). The best price so far I have found is on ebay UK.
 
Lofrans are excellent winches, I however have a quick, it is superbly built and I have no complaints whatsoever. Plenty of power and very well made. Excellent prices also.
 
bargain on ebay, Aries 1412D £650 new...

...too big for your requirements but possible bargain for someone with a bigger boat on ebay, sorry can't put a link in the insert a link feature not working for me...
David
 
multihullsailor6 said:
After reading a windlass test in an UK boating magazine I am planning to purchase a Southern Pacific windlass which came out tops in that report - in my case I am looking at the VS1000 which is a vertical one. One of the outstanding features I liked about the technical concept is the use of "efficient spur gears instead of traditional worm gears which can reduce up to 30% ~ 50% of motor power consumption" (from Southern Pacific's website). The best price so far I have found is on ebay UK.
Click to expand...

Beware of believing everything that you read in magazines. Once upon a time I used to work for a sports car manufacturer. We wrote our own magazine articles in return for advertising and lunches. I'm not saying that certain magazines, especially the ones who host this site would do that, but all magazines are in the business of selling magazines and advertising and when you are an unhappy customer it will effect them not one bit.
 
We have a Lofrans Masterwinch 1000w Clipper on a Fulmar with remote hand held with the socket inside the forward hatch and a 3 way switch in cockpit, magic bit of kit. Takes all the pain out of anchoring, we have 60 mtrs of 8mm chain which is ample for most occasions. This is a vertical windlass and has a rope drum but the gipsy takes chain and rope.
 
Whatever the manufacturers say a 700watt motor is too close to the limit for your boat, especially if you intend to anchor with any frequency.

Either Lofrans or Quick are the most popular windlasses for most, if you use a heavy enough textile rode (about x2 the chain ie 16mm for 8mm chain) the chain-only drum will handle both.

Consider very carefully the wiring, it's usually good practice to consider an additional battery in the forepeak close to the winch, or to use 35mm c/s wiring.
 
multihullsailor6 said:
After reading a windlass test in an UK boating magazine I am planning to purchase a Southern Pacific windlass which came out tops in that report - in my case I am looking at the VS1000 which is a vertical one. One of the outstanding features I liked about the technical concept is the use of "efficient spur gears instead of traditional worm gears which can reduce up to 30% ~ 50% of motor power consumption" (from Southern Pacific's website). The best price so far I have found is on ebay UK.
Click to expand...

The big advantage of worm gears is that they will not reverse of their own accord, no matter how high the load. Spur gears, on the other hand, will quite freely rotate in either direction. Presumably they need some sort of sprag clutch or brake to prevent this from happening. Applying the principle that 'whatever can go wrong will go wrong' I forsee problems with this design, inevitably at the most inconvenient moment.

Motor power has never been a problem for me, with a 1000W motor on a Maxwell Freedom 800 windlass. Provided the windlass is sized for the boat I don't see why it should be.
 
charles_reed said:
Whatever the manufacturers say a 700watt motor is too close to the limit for your boat, especially if you intend to anchor with any frequency.

Either Lofrans or Quick are the most popular windlasses for most, if you use a heavy enough textile rode (about x2 the chain ie 16mm for 8mm chain) the chain-only drum will handle both.

Consider very carefully the wiring, it's usually good practice to consider an additional battery in the forepeak close to the winch, or to use 35mm c/s wiring.
Click to expand...



Voltage drop is the killer of windlass performance and eventually the killer of the windlass itself.

Yes a battery can be placed up in the bow nearer the windlass to make cable runs shorter, but you still have to run cables from your alternator to your new battery and given the likely long length, voltage drop will be high, unless large diameter cables are used, in which case you are back at the problem you were trying to avoid.
If you have a high output alternator to boot then there really is no benefit to a battery up at the pointy end.

You also have to consider the extra weight up forward (batteries are damned heavy), as well as other complications like diodes if you want to keep the windlass battery as a seperate bank.

All in all unless your boat is very big and the batteries are right back in the stern it is easier and more efficient just to size the cables correctly for the length of run from your current battery bank.

I have guestimated my own length of run from batteries amidships to 1000W windlass up at the pointy end (10metre boat) and my cable size calculator says 50mm cable is the minimum. This will give a 2.3% voltage drop on a total length of 10 metres (there and back). If I'd chosen 35mm cable then the voltage drop would increase to 3.1%. Doesn't sound like much difference but that's a lot of power loss for a 1000W windlass. At 12.8v battery voltage the bigger cable would see 12.5v at the windlass and the smaller one only 12.4v.

Also a 1000W windlass really needs to be connected to a big battery bank. If you connect it to a single 100amp/hr battery up front and then use it without the engine running you will soon kill the battery. A 1000w motor will draw 78amps at 12.8volts. If you've only got say a 55amp alternator then your battery will not be a happy bunny. 'But I only use it in short bursts' you say, well a 100amp/hr battery when subject to loads of 78amps will not give 100amps for an hour because that rating is calculated at a far lower current draw. It will soon die.

From a correct electrical installation point of view I would advise against installing a battery up front unless the cable size becomes so big that it is impossible to install it.
 
Subject to space and affordabillity it is desireable for the electric windlass to have a practical manual overide (fewer and fewer offer this); the ability to free fall as well as power-out; and the possibility of remote operation. But they are not essential.

We have been happy with a Quick 1000 on our 12m yacht - it is powered from the mid-ships domestic battery bank but will only operate if the engine is running and does not have manual or remote facilities.

On one occassion after everything got very muddy I (stupidly) decided to clean anchor, 40m chain and 40m rope by letting it all out in deep water. Charles Reed's rule did not work when I tried to winch in with the weight causing the rope to slip. It took an hour of strenuous work using a cockpit primary winch before the chain gripped in the gypsy. However, used sensibly in normal anchoring rope, chain and even the connecting shackle pass happily round the gypsy.

A final recommendation, as well as tying on the anchor always isolate the electric windlass immediately after use. I once had the solenoid burn out and cause the anchor to start power lowering. It turned out that the installer had fitted a smaller trip switch than that recommended by Quick and no repeats after upgrading it.
 
Pinetops said:
it is powered from the mid-ships domestic battery bank but will only operate if the engine is running

A final recommendation, as well as tying on the anchor always isolate the electric windlass immediately after use. I once had the solenoid burn out and cause the anchor to start power lowering. It turned out that the installer had fitted a smaller trip switch than that recommended by Quick and no repeats after upgrading it.
Click to expand...

If your windlass will only operate with the engine running then it is a certain sign of excessive voltage drop caused by undersized cables or poor connections. If your installer fitted an undersized circuit breaker then he will probably have matched the cable size to that rating too. So now you will probably find that your wiring has become the weakest link in your circuit, which is the job of the circuit breaker! All components in an electrical circuit must be rated correctly to both allow the device to work correctly and to be safe in operation... I think I would have somebody look at the install again.
 
Pinetops said:
I once had the solenoid burn out and cause the anchor to start power lowering. It turned out that the installer had fitted a smaller trip switch than that recommended by Quick and no repeats after upgrading it.
Click to expand...

Sorry for second post on same subject, but I just re-read the last sentence. Sounds a bit fishy to me. If the solenoid started to burn up then it would most likely trip the circuit breaker, especially if the circuit breaker is under-rated for the device. Obviously it depends how exactly it burns up inside. If it just gets stuck in the on position then it wouldn't trip until it came upon a heavy load, i.e the end of the chain whilst still attached to the boat.
I can't see how an undersized circuit breaker has any thing to do with the fault that you had. Now an oversized one might as it wouldn't trip when needed to, which would put undue load on components like the solenoid contacts, which would burn them up.
 
Vonasi has spotted my memory loss - the installer had fitted a larger trip than recommended by Quick, twice the size actually, so as he says the system was not protected. Over a period of 5 years frequent use since then the correct trip has only tripped a couple of times. The system is deliberately wired so that the windlass only comes into circuit if the engine is running - I think this builder does it as routine to prevent excessive drain on the domestic battery bank.

I think that in the early days I over-used the powerful windlass to pull the boat up to the anchor whereas now, unless the conditions are light, I use a bit of engine.
 
Thanks for clearing that up Pinetops. I will now sleep much better tonight knowing that your wiring is ok and more importantly that my brain still works despite the heavy pickling process that I have put it through over the years!

Sorry to everyone else for going a little bit off-topic.
 
Don't buy a Lewmar windlass - not on my experience, anyway.

In July 2008 I bought a V3. Less than a year later it had failed, the motor/gear box assembly had corroded away due to moisture seeping past the end-cap (see pic below). It was effectively a write-off.

When I tried to claim under guarantee, Lewmar dismissed me .... on the grounds that the windlass had been installed in a damp anchor locker!!

The windlass was yard installed following Lewmar's installation instructions to the letter, which make no mention that the unit is not waterproof, nor any advice on what should be done about this.

Incidentally, my previous Simpson-Lawrance windlass lasted 19 years in the same location. I will never buy another Lewmar product.

Lewmar_Windlass.jpg
 
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