New winch bolts

[zoidberg]

I'm replacing old sheet winches with quite decent used Lewmar 30s. Having to buy new bolts 'n nuts, I plumped for countersunk with hex socket, to facilitate doing them up. I also had to drill new 'oles and epoxy-fill the old ones, of course.

Came the day to mount them , and I discovered that these with 'hex socket' won't fit down flush in the 8mm holes in the bronze centre stem's flange, whereas an 8mm bolt ( 'machine screw' ) with a slot-head fits just fine. The slot-head units are 13mm wide; those with the 'hex socket' heads are 15mm wide, and foul on the exposed ratchet gears.

Grinding 2mm off the diameter of the heads of the 15mm wide 'head socket' bolts permits them to miss the gears - just - and fit down. Slipping the chrome drum on also seems to fit without fouling. I could also grind a small 'flat' on the new diameter, to give further clearance, if wanted.

But I'm not wholly convinced, and ask anyone who's tackled the same problem to share any Catch-22 'gotchas'....

 

[colind3782]

If you take the gears out, fit the bolts and then replace the gears would you get the clearance?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Buy the correct size machine screws.

 

[RichardS]

Buy the correct size machine screws.

Indeed. Allen socket cap head machine screws should fit.

Richard

 

[Poignard]

The socket heads have to be larger because the socket would make the head weak if it was the same size as that for a slotted head.

You could enlarge the countersunk holes in the winch base but I would not consider that justified.

I would use slotted head countersunk screws and put the ones you have bought in the "might come in handy one day" box.

 

[doug748]

Open up the countersinks if you have the tackle or grind the hex things down and mount them on a power drill to finish them round, with a file.

If I understand correctly you can simply use the cross head jobs?

I would just do the easiest thing, those bolts are essentially in shear and, in my view, will not pull out before the sheet gives up or the deck gives up.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I think you're overthinking this. Just get some 8mm bolt ( 'machine screw' ) with a slot-head. Keep the Allen key jobbies for future projects. The slot heads will work just fine.

 

[Stemar]

I think you're overthinking this. Just get some 8mm bolt ( 'machine screw' ) with a slot-head. Keep the Allen key hobbies for future projects. The slot heads will work just fine.

I'm inclined to agree. I hate slot headed screws with a passion; no matter how many screwdrivers I have, I never seem to have the right one, or it's a bit rounded, so perfect for demolishing the slot, but these are fairly big and don't need to be "stripped and back a quarter turn" tight.

 

[BabaYaga]

I also have Lewmar 30 sheet winches (circa 1980, non ST), so noticed this thread a few days ago.
Was a bit surprised that M8 mounting bolts were mentioned.
I have now checked mine (off at the moment) and the mounting holes in the flange are just over 7mm.
The original bolts used seems to be countersunk UNC 1/4".
Could it be that a previous owner of yours has enlarged the holes to take M8 bolts and that this explains why the counterbore does not quite 'swallow' the head of the socket-headed bolt?
Modern ST30 winches seem to use M6 mounting bolts:
Lewmar 30ST Self Tailing Winch | Yachtmail Chandlery

 

[zoidberg]

Could it be that a previous owner of yours has enlarged the holes to take M8 bolts and that this explains why the counterbore does not quite 'swallow' the head of the socket-headed bolt?

Yes, B-Y, that's certainly possible, thanks, but I noticed no signs of such 'surgery' on the bronze casting. I had to go with what I found.

I've used the 'William of Occam' approach to refurbing, and simply ground down the heads of the bolts I'd acquired for the job. They now fit well enough, and I reckon they'll see me out....

Not an elegant engineering solution, but I'm reminded of a once-famous racing skipper's bon mot - 'If it's below the waterline, it doesn't show, and if it's above the waterline it doesn't matter...'

 

[zoidberg]

I would use slotted head countersunk screws and put the ones you have bought in the "might come in handy one day" box.

My dear 'Poignard', I have every sympathy with your 'counsel of perfection', but I have a loft crammed full to groaning with just such "might come in handy one day" boxes, and a 32' x 18' polytunnel equally bulked-out with the accumulated spoils of years of haunting Beaulieu Boat Jumbles and YBW For Sale forums. On threat of excommunication I have been forbidden to 'overstock' any more, and to use some of what I already have....

But I do appreciate the thought! ?

 

[rogerthebodger]

I had the same issue when I fitted my Andersen winches to my boat.

I Machined down the outside diameter of the head a little so it fitted into the countersink in the winch base.

My winches are bolted into tapped holes in a steel base welded to my cockpit sides so I needed to tighten the bolts tighter than I could with a screw slotted set screw.

 

[Poignard]

My dear 'Poignard', I have every sympathy with your 'counsel of perfection', but I have a loft crammed full to groaning with just such "might come in handy one day" boxes, and a 32' x 18' polytunnel equally bulked-out with the accumulated spoils of years of haunting Beaulieu Boat Jumbles and YBW For Sale forums. On threat of excommunication I have been forbidden to 'overstock' any more, and to use some of what I already have....

But I do appreciate the thought! ?

.

My dear Zoidberg, your post arouses in me deep feelings of envy.

 

[zoidberg]

As an addendum, lest it be useful to someone, I'd intended to run a loop of polybutyl tape around the bolts, to compress down into each countersunk grp 'ring' and seal them. With the fiddling about needed, that wasn't practicable, so I slipped onto each bolt a Code 5 'O-ring' which should do the same - I hope.