New versions of old classic 20 footers?

Boomshanka

Boomshanka

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It's no doubt been asked many times before... but are there any new boats equivalent to high ballast ratio, tough little 20 (ish) footers of days gone by (aka Hurley, Corribee, Kingfisher, etc)... ?

Apart from mini-transat 6.50s, or maybe the new Elan 210... all on the expensive side... I suppose there's a home build a la Eric Henseval's Aviateur

Any other ideas?
 
immortal plastic

GRP is immortal - and second hand 20 footers so cheap and good that there is no real market for new boats of this size


it will soon be the same with 30 footers - a saturated market


boats don't die anymore

which is a good thing

and its also a bad thing

so if you want a new 20 footer buy one that some-one has lavished massive amounts of money on and everything but the hull will be new

Dylan
 
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Immortal GRP is a terrible thing IMO.

It must remind boatbuilders of that old film, The Man in The White Suit.

I sometimes look at the more decrepit and ancient boats going greener in the muddy esturine boondocks and wonder what we have to do to put them out of their misery and to remove an eyesore from our coastlines.
 
I cant help wonder why you would want a 'new' old boat. If the type of boat you are looking for were to be built to current technology, it certainly would not be anything like those boats you mention.

If you want a 20 ish footer of the type found from the early days of GRP, why not buy one of the ones sitting around begging for a buyer, then lavish money on new mast/rig/sails/engine etc etc. You would then have YOUR boat.
 
Rigger Mortice said:
Slightly bigger, but does the Folkboat qualify?
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I've looked at folkboats... whilst things like the ballast ratio is a real plus, they seem to be pricey and really low headroom down below for a 26 footer. Bringing a 1980ish 'project' up to date sounds appealing. I don't want to go much over 20 foot purely to keep moorig costs reasonable.
 
Disproportionate pricing makes new boats this size unfeasible seemingly. Tens of thousands for a "starter boat" size. Mind you, 30-35 seems to be considered starter now.

Tis a shame as it's a fantastic size.

At college all the design students were into designing something this size, but almost without exception they seemed to be based on the mini concept, or perhaps "sportsboat" occasionally. Cruising, what's that?

Folkboat derivatives aren't so pricey, except Marieholms, which are nutty money and CO26s which are de rigueur for RTW blog kiddies. And it's only marina berths where this length is going to make a difference over 20ish'.
 
Boomshanka said:
... are there any new boats equivalent to high ballast ratio, tough little 20 (ish) footers of days gone by (aka Hurley, Corribee, Kingfisher, etc)... ?

Any other ideas?
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Yep - buy a kit boat hull which was never started: that way you get a brand new 70's boat in 2011 after fitting it out.

... did I mention that I have such a hull ? Coromandel.
 
galadriel said:
I cant help wonder why you would want a 'new' old boat. If the type of boat you are looking for were to be built to current technology, it certainly would not be anything like those boats you mention.
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There seems to be quite a variety of 20-ish footers around still: Red Fox, Cornish Shrimper, various little Polish things. However, they are (a) fiendishly expensive (to my jaundiced eye) and (b) trailer sailers. There doesn't seem to be much if anything at that length made to live afloat - no modern Corribees, Jousters, Leisure 20s and so on. I suspect that's down to three reasons
  1. The outrageously high cost of floating moorings or marina berths in much of the country, and especially minimum charging lengths
  2. The ready availability of sheds full of these things second hand, in every state from "immaculate" to "project"
  3. An increase focus on racing at these lengths - and racers (as with most sports people) will spend almost without limit for fun and competitive advantage.
In fact I suspect that comparatively few cruising yachts are being built these days. Most of the things reviewed in the magazines seem to be built primarily for racing, and will trickle down to cruising in due course.
 
Well, nothing smaller than say, a Macgregor 26. Maybe Hunter Horizon 21, or as mentioned Red Fox 200 (also Hunter now, but not a keelboat).

As for a makeover, beware of them not being a cheap(er) option. I've got one in process now, and it's going to be a work in progress for some time, along with costing more in parts and materials than a 'ready-to-sail' one.

The market has totally been destroyed by the disparity between available used boats of this size and cheaper big boats. Anyone with money go for 30' minimum (as a starter- insane!), and without money for an eighties model of the discussed size.
 
The underlying reasons for the lack of such boats new is that they were a product of their times. A Hurley 22 was a serious cuising boat in its time and aspirational for those that could afford it when even a Wayfarer was a major investment. I bought a new Seawych in 1977 and this was a similar statement of "wealth" to somebody buying a new 30 footer today and my mate's dad building a Sabre at the same time was in the seriously wealthy category (by working mens standards).

The market, however is now full of perfectly usable boats of this size. I would guess about 30% of the boats in our club are less than 25ft and worth less than £10k. They provide new entrants with an economic way in and many of the more mature members with a means of boating when they scale back their activities.
 
Among favourites of mine are the Waarschip and the Hunter Medina ,modern looking lines and performance.
The Proctor designs too were good boats of their time, Preludes and the Nimrod and a rarer one, the Eclipse, though bordering on the 20' plus side and was a study for a 1/4 tonner, with bilge boards - similar to the Red Fox(David Thomas), but earlier.
Of course the 1970' and 80's were the boom times for the boating industry and the introduction of GRP permitted a boat to be designed, moulded and produced in almost economical numbers, leading to class racing, and the adoption of some by clubs as their 'one design' classes.
I remember reading the Yachting Monthly (?)reviews and reports on the 'One of a Kind' competitions that assessed each boat's performance and were raced with near 'professional' crews; this gave a level of expertise for the events, but at the end a close comparison of each design in the conditions sailed.
We don't hear of this occurring much these days, more's the pity.
The little Hunter19's/Europas evolved from the Squib and Tracer hull forms by Oliver Lee were typical starter boats and still are seen regularly.
The 'floating caravan' description of the Westerlys was a poor description of their sailing performances that gave safe if not sparkling performances, and the Cirrus was such a boat, and later the Tiger,both with the fin keels that out-sailed larger LWL yachts at times.

ianat182
 
Medina a fantastic little boat. Loved my dad's and super fun single-handed. Waarschips smart too, but I am always wary of wood, especially home completed ones. But them Dutch know how to design, build and keep a boat.

Along those lines though, I think it's worth mentioning the Hunter Formula 1, another I nearly went for. Small interior, but seemingly sail well and look good. Also built of kevlar composite and with a lifting bulbed fin. Reviewed in latest PBO actually, being Hunter, Mr Poland does rather focus on that brand...
 
Also, the degree to which [cough] SWMBO [/cough] people will put up with roughing it while camp cruising has changed. My parents were born in the 30s, grew up with wartime and post war rationing, and thought that cruising en famille - 3 small children in a 25'er was fine, and many people thought the same way.

I think that the relative number of people who were born in the late 60/early 70s, grew up in the 80 and now have enough cash to splash on a boat are going to be far less enamoured with the whole camp cruising in small boats thing. Privation is much less acceptable.

I think that given the market for small cheap boats is going to be very tight - very hard to generate any volumes when you're up against the existing stock out there. So the interesting market might be the small expensive boats. Hi tech boats for 60 somethings -European cruisier versions of the day sailors in YW (as we have far fewer "dock at the end of the garden" setups).

Sort of a boat version of a Mercedes A class.
 
Not sure if my original thoughts were clear... it's not the longevity of modern boats as such, it's the 'seaworthiness'... I would have no hesitation in setting off for a cross-channel hop (or further) in a Hurley 22... what new, modern 20-22 footer is available to give such confidence?

A quick look, for instance, on cruisers around 20 foot here (clicky) brings up a few options, but none of them seem to have anywhere near the ballast ratio of older designs. The Bene First 21.7 looks (to me anyway) the most reasonable - but light displacement and lifting keel wouldn't fill me with confidence.

I thought that Elan moving back into this length bracket (with the 210) might be a signal that manufacturers are reading the signs that folk want a new, capable coastal/offshore (x-channel) boat for single handing/couple ... without paying through the nose for ongoing moorings/marinas or maintenance.
 
That Elan does look quite smart, and I like to see the chines (best in YM, where it's "complete with chines..." as if they're an optional extra!). Does this mean they're to be a new fashion? I know the eighties are kinda "in" (or out again already?), but this is an interesting development that David Thomas'll like. I can only think of the Hunter 700 and Red Fox having these in recent years.
 
Boomshanka said:
The Bene First 21.7 looks (to me anyway) the most reasonable - but light displacement and lifting keel wouldn't fill me with confidence.
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Lots of those and 211s on Windermere. They seem very tender to me. My Foxcub 18 was stiffer than them sailing in the same conditions.

This piccy was taken in about f3/4. We set off after taking this shot and even hoisted our spinnaker (a bad judgement call as it happened), but we certainly weren't as hard pressed as this boat.

SouthLake.jpg
 
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