New User. First Boat. Difficult Choices!

[kazbar]

Hi All

Thanks for all your input so far regarding my previous posts especially Kevin, martynwhiteley, andrewa, barryjl, Dave_Snelson and lanason.

The more I read and find out, the less I am sure about my first step into this exciting arena.

From what I have found out so far the advice would be that.

1. Do the RYA Power Boat Levels 1 and 2 (which I am going to do locally here in Brighton)
2. Diesel is cheaper and easy to get hold of compared to petrol (sorry petrol headsJ) but the boats cost more (any equations or thought regarding the savings/usage ratio would be appreciated)

I am getting to the point where I am thinking should I walk before I run (South coast marinas heave a sigh of relief!!).

My question is this.

Should I start out with a smaller cheaper boat in the 15-20 ft area instead of my intended 25-30 ft? I have seen a few Fletcher Vigos and Faros in this size, are these any good as a starter boat or are there better choices to be had.

Some of the advice so far regarding my original plan of a large boat says that it might be better to go for an older British built boat over a newer USA built one. I must admit my prejudice here in that a newer looking design and newer interior is far more appealing to me. Am I stuck with my notion from car buying where I have never owned a really old car (classics excluded) and feel that anything over 10 years old will feel exactly that.


If I was to go for a larger boat the Bayliner 2655 is my preferred option at the moment.

Regards
Karl


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[lanason]

My advice would be to go for 20-24 foot as first boat - easier to fender / push off if your gunna bump something and easier / quicker to get out from the helm to do the stern ropes or whatever.
Best bit not too expensive and as for old well mine 1978 and you can see from the pictures below see wouldn't look out of place at the London Boat Show. /forums/images/icons/blush.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Adrian
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/kelisha>More Pics of Kelisha</A> /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[lanason]

My advice would be to go for 20-24 foot as first boat - easier to fender / push off if your gunna bump something and easier / quicker to get out from the helm to do the stern ropes or whatever.
Best bit not too expensive, and as for old, well, mine is 1978 and you can see from the pictures below see wouldn't look out of place at the London Boat Show. /forums/images/icons/blush.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Adrian
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/kelisha>More Pics of Kelisha</A> /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[hlb]

You have to decide what you want the boat for. Small ones are just for local stuff really, and you will soon get bored less your into skiing fishing or whatever. Bigger boats are more for cruising, maybe a few miles out, going from A to B. My boats 14 years old. There not like cars, you just refurbish them like your house. Mine is worth about the same as it was five years ago when I bought it. Dont be taken in by flash new as apossed to older, well built.

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[martynwhiteley]

Thanks for the recognition Karl.

IMHO there is a big watershed at 23ft. Below that your talking cuddy type sportsboats, or small fishers, certainly without a standing headroom cabin, and only a very limited capability to crash out for one night if your desperate. In summary 'dayboats'.

Not only that, but your also talking generally about fair weather fun, will only use it when it's sunshining, however they are far more portable, if you fancy towing around to different locations on a regular basis.

If your talking 'cruising' then you must look 23ft plus. Only then will you get facilities necessary to enjoy the passtime, and a boat capable of being used most weekends, year round if you like.

Certainly if you want to sleep 4, the Bayliner 2655 is pretty much the smallest to consider, with a few exceptions, eg. Cruisers 224.

You should find that a 27ft cruiser is easier to get to grips with than a smaller sports boat, so don't look at the sports boat as a way in to grow into a small cruiser. You are likely to want to change within 6 months, and waste pots.

The Petrol/Diesel issue is more complex at the sub £30K end of the market.

Some users will find petrol a no-no due to availability, but other than that it boils down to the price you pay for the boat and what you get. As I said before (IMHO) avoid twin petrols, far to expensive to feed, (and replace unless you convert to single).

I suspect that you'd likely use the boat for at least 100 hours a year for the first year or two, then it might fall away a bit. At this level of usage, you would save approx £2K pa with diesel, quite a margin.

But if you've say a 1996 Bayliner 2655 with a 220 hp petrol for £15K, you'd struggle to find a diesel equivalent for less than £25K, so the petrol look favourite.

I agree with the about older boats, and it doesn't matter how well they're built, if it's 20 years old, you will always be chasing your tail with window leaks, pump failures, stress cracks, tired headlinings, dodgy switches, leaking nav lights, etc. whatever the make, even Princess/Fairline etc.

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[neale]

The 2655 would be a good choice first boat, and at £15k it is going to have to be petrol. A typical weekend may find you burning £100 in petrol as against the same weekend in a diesel boat costing you £20. But as previously mentioned the same boat with a diesel is gonna cost you an extra £10k.

If you bought a slightly smaller boat, say a 2355 of the same age you will save a couple of grand on the purchase price which you could put towards a trailer and then you can save up to £3k a year mooring fees. This of course depends on having a big 4x4 and a big drive/front garden.

15-20 foot boats are going to be limited in what they can do and agree, from first hand experience), with comments about older boats and the amount of maintenance they need.

Neale

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[barryjl]

Thanks for the recognition. Can't remember now where you are going to do your cruising and that is an important factor. As I've told you before, I have two brand new USA boats and three older UK boats and whilst I take onboard (scuse the pun) your views about new and shiny, I still think that an older UK boat is the best option - that's certainly my experience anyway - have you actually been and looked at any older boats? Falcon 22/23 has great reputation, I love my Fairline Sunfury and there's some nice Sealine 255's around.

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[barryjl]

Hi again - further to my last post, just remembered that they have a Bayliner 2655 DEISEL for sale at Deacons Boatyard on the Hamble (Must have been re-powered cos they didn't originally make them with deisels. Think it was about 25k so if you're intent on Bayliner might be worth giving them a call or checking out their website (they must have one I'm sure).

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[Kevin]

Hi

Thanks for the recognition. I hope you find what your looking for.

Its best to have huge headaches now whilst choosing the right boat than getting very expensive headaches after paying out and possibly ending up with the wrong one.

Kevin

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[kazbar]

Hi All

Thanks for all the responses.

Been away from the computer so not replied until now.

I would be using the boat from Brighton which brings up another series of decisions.
1 Marina or trailer. I have Shogun LWB 2.5 Diesel and long drive so have the either option.

2 If Marina Brighton or cheaper marinas that I could drive to (seems a bit strange when B'ton Marina is 10 mins drive but understand that from here there is not much to sail to)

3. 25ft plus boat how easy to launch and recover from a trailer and how many bodies needed to do it?

Regards

Karl

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[Dave_Snelson]

Hi Karl,

Not sure of your budget matey (and none of my biz!) but I very nearly bought the 2655. Affordable boating with loads of room. There is a reasonable one up by me 1994 on at £18k with a 5.7L petrol - low hours.

Alternatively try here <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.boats-for-sale.com>http://www.boats-for-sale.com</A> and type in Bayliner 2655 on the left hand side "quick search". There a couple of re-engined diesel ones here as well.

Get a survey done - it ain't the be all and end all, but it should show any major defects.

Keep us posted and good luck.

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[lanason]

25 foot is pushing it for regular trailboating - but actually WEIGHT is more important - limit is 3500kg inc trailer and all the odds and sods - anyway even a big 4x4 will have its hands full.

But with the right slipway - i.e. with a pontoon down the side - it can be done with one person..... but the key questions are:-

- how do you get from / leave the boat to go get the car and trailer back into the water ??
- when you get the boat over the tralier how do you connect them together when your on the helm ??
- how do you hold the boat in line (stern ropes) or does then trailer self centre the boat easily

imagine that lot with an open slipway on a beach - waves coming in, wind howling round etc etc......

With a big boat you cant just pick her up and move her...

Anyway i didnt think Brighton had a slipway

<hr width=100% size=1>Adrian
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[barryjl]

Again, from experience, would put put boat on a berth rather than launching recovering all the time - you will get far more use out of it. Scenario - 6pm weekday evening, weather nice, "lets take the boat out" - towing to a slipway, launching, recovering, getting wet - "lets not bother" - if on a berth your down there and out in no time. If your in the Brighton area you definitely need something bigger than a 'cuddy cabin' to get proper use. Sea down there can be big, quite often - would again reiterate my earlier sentiments - a secondhand UK boat - Falcon/Fairline/Sealine - Small Bayliner will rock n roll in those conditions and may put family off.

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[kazbar]

I think there is a slipway at Shoreham which is in the sheltered waters of the harbour.

Lanason I must admit I did hesitate writing about old boats, as I have seen your picture album and thought your boat looked great. In fact your pictures were one of the reasons I thought it might be possible for me to tow. But being a novice was more worried about buying a lemon even taking a survey into account.

As I don't come from a family with a history of sailing I will need to learn soemthings that are second nature to others.

I think a Bayliner 2655 is about 2,350kg

Regards

Karl

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[hlb]

Old or new dont really come into it. First you want the right boat for the job, for me thats 35ft'ish. Then you decide how much you want to spend. For me it was sub 100 grand (well SWMBO actually) So then I was looking for the best boat I could find that fit the criterior?? Total waste of time picking size on amount of money available or you finnish up like TCM with 23 metre boat for skiing..../forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[Solitaire]

I had a Bayliner 2655 for 3 years - it is a lousy boat on the south coast. The hull is very flat on the stern and will slam like mad in anything more than a slight sea. Where you are looking to base yourself is miles from really any action and to get down to the Solent and beyond in a Bayliner will be most uncomfortable. If your looking at Bayliners then you won't to be at least 30 foot to be of any comfort on the South Coast.

As has been said before look at Fairline or Falcon. I have a Fairline Sprint and it outperforms all the amrican boats of a similar size and bigger in the sea. The hulls were designed for UK conditions.

The internal structure of my Bayliner shook apart one day going around Gilker Point. Had to use big bolts to put it all back together again. One point of note, the newer Bayliners are built to better specs but anything pre 1998 or so I'd just keep away from if you won't ti use it down here (South Coast).

<hr width=100% size=1>Boating is <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.powerboat-training.co.uk>Serious</A> Fun

 

[Kevin]

Hi

reading this thread with interest and agree with some points and not with others as Im sure most do.

I had a Bayliner 2655 and its fine on the soutcoast!

I do think that there is a lot of people Pro UK boats which is understandable and fine but lets not get carried away with how good these boats are Supposed to be in Sea conditions as opposed to the boats made in the USA! Not all boats made in the USA are substandard in sea conditions! Not all US boats are lake boats they design many that way because thats where they are mainly used but lets not forget the size of some of their lakes!

In the States where I spend a lot of time I know of dealers that sell Fairlines old and new, Princess, Sunseeker and they all think the boats are ok but nothing great in the Big Blue! The one make that will wipe the floor with any of these makes in any sea conditions are the the Formula boats. Nothing, all previous names mentioned can hold a candle to them in serious conditions, Most UK boats not even up to standard of second rate US built offshore boats! in Poker style runs the UK boats are left totally for dead for speed and comfort and build quality! In the States Fairline Sunseeker Princess are not even mentioned in the same breath as Formula range of boats. Formula boats 40 footers hit 60mph and are nearly as quick with diesel! Id take a Formula of 30 feet or so over our supposedly superior Sea boats such as Fairline Sunseeker of 10 or 15 feet longer etc

Why am I telling you this, well to address the balance that we think over here that we make the best made boats and the best designed boats I assure you we don't! We get to only see the majority of lake derived USA boats.

The reason Bayliners etc are lower standard is there built to cost format and thats fair enough but lets not tarnish all USA boats with this weak inferior brush, at their best their offshore boats out perform, in all areas, UK boats!

Karl if you want to see true quality go find a 15 year old Formula ( there are a few in the country and there will not be a mark on them or a piece of cockpit vinyl worn)

Kevin


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[kazbar]

timers go for a Bayliner?


Hi All

Interesting posts with opposite viewpoints

I have a question for all the comments regarding UK over USA boats. From someone who said 15 years ago that they would never own a Japanese car but now does!! (and very happy with it also).

Is there a touch of Patriotism with a small p regarding the quality of British boats over USA and disregarding the lakes in North America surely the sea conditions are the same or similar and a boat that is designed for the sea will work of any coast or is it that all the boats designed in the USA are for lakes? Surely not.

I would have thought that the manufacturers in the USA with such a large market could apply economies of scale and can therefore produce a better value product.

Finally I can’t help but feel a little jealous of the people on the other side of the pond. Their houses are cheaper than ours especially here in the south east and you can get a
Sea Ray 290DA 1993 for $28,500 (£17,800) priced here on boatsforsale £37,500
Or
Bayliner 2655 2000 for $21,000 (£13,125) priced here on boatsforsale £30,000

Yes they are all petrol which brings me to the next point you can forget about the diesel/petrol debate over there - they don’t have to worry about gas guzzling beasts with the cost of their petrol.

Sod the one here and one in the med…. I want to live in Florida!! I can do more diving that way also instead of putting up with wooly bears and dry suits and near zero visibility







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