New Thames Boater Questions

[Mashby]

Hi all,

My father has just brought a Shetland 760 based at Walton. Which so far has been tremendous fun we have only taken it out once a couple of weekends ago as the river has been so high. One thing I must say how refreshingly friendly the marina and river seem to be.

As the "boater" in the family (lived out in Canada for a while and did a few years pottering around on a lake). We are having a day with the gent from the Marina to show us the ropes so to speak. I just thought I would ask you experiance guys some questions prior to that.

Thames Questions
1.What tips & Advice would you offer to people new on the Thames.
2.Is their anything that is a must not do.
3.What happens if you break down.
4.Looking at all details on the river. How come they say no speed limit past Wandsworth but they surgest 10kts. Can you get done for speeding on that part of the river. As I see those rib tours seem to go faster than that.


Below I have attached a picture of the Boat. It is a Shetland 760 (I beleive) 25ft with a 40hp Suzuki outboard.

Boat Question
1.Does anyone know much about the Shetland 760 as it seems to be a pretty rare boat.
2.Would anyone like to take a guess as its top speed.
3.How much are bow thrusters fitted.

Many thank and look forward to meeting some of you on the river.
Cheers
Matt

 

[TrueBlue]

Thames Questions
1.What tips & Advice would you offer to people new on the Thames.
2.Is their anything that is a must not do.
3.What happens if you break down.
4.Looking at all details on the river. How come they say no speed limit past Wandsworth but they surgest 10kts. Can you get done for speeding on that part of the river. As I see those rib tours seem to go faster than that.


Boat Question
1.Does anyone know much about the Shetland 760 as it seems to be a pretty rare boat.
2.Would anyone like to take a guess as its top speed.
3.How much are bow thrusters fitted.
Bow thrusters on that type and size of boat?????
Many thank and look forward to meeting some of you on the river.
Cheers
Matt

To answer some of your questions; firstly you must be aware that the River is effectively divided in two.
The tidal bit below Teddington and managed by the Port of London Authority
The non tidal bit from Teddington upwards and managed by the Environment Agency.

The rules and practices are different. I can only comment on the EA bit.

For starters here are some notes that I prepared a couple of years back, but are still relevant. It concerns the use of locks:-


Wait / stay moored on the layby until the lock keeper beckons you to enter.

Observe lock keeper’s directions as to which side to moor and how far up to go.

Don't jump the queue - unless the keeper "calls you in" ahead of other boats (some lockies take a pride in “balancing the load”, endeavouring to pack in as many boats as possible, matching widths as well as lengths. This is important when the river is short of water).

Have your lines ready to loop over the bollards.

Don't rush in, slam the engine(s) in reverse - with the result that your back end goes every-which-way, so that your crew can't get a line ashore efficiently. It’s difficult to lasoo a bollard from the middle of a lock….

Make it clear to following boats which side you intend to moor (folks behind may be about to position themselves to filter in on the other side of the lock - it all helps to fill the lock with craft quickly and smoothly if they know what you're doing).

Don't treat the lock as your exclusive property and moor up bang in the middle of a side, plan ahead and move up to the head, or be prepared to move up without being asked should, inevitably, boats appear 'out of nowhere'. There's nowt more infuriating to miss a locking because some selfish ignorant asterisk couldn't be asterisked to move up. Many lockies have given up asking skippers to move as they often get some form of abuse when doing so.

If going upstream you're likely to be the only boat in the lock, moor towards the back end - if you do the keeper can fill the lock more quickly without causing you any distress (i.e. he can let the water in faster).

One keeper (the previous incumbent at Shiplake) castigated me for using his furniture to stop my boat - a finer point of navigating.

Do NOT take a full turn (double loop) round a bollard – even if going upstream – lines can easily snag, preventing you from loosening or tightening them. It is very easy to have your pride and joy (and your boat) hanging up with fresh air between it and the water.

Keep you dog(s) secured on board at all times. One lock keeper well above Oxford (where for most boaters the Trolls live) lost all his chickens because one boater’s dog jumped out and chewed them all. Result, he doesn’t keep fowl any more and has no fresh eggs for sale.

Stop your engine(s) when you have made the boat secure

Turn off any radio or other sound generators.

Turn off any kettle or naked flame.

On leaving do NOT start your engines until at least the gates are open / opening. This is a safety point – as are the three preceding items, because should a fire or explosion occur as a result (OK, not so likely to envisage nowadays as ‘most’ boats are diesel powered, but even so…) then nobody has anywhere to go. If the gates are open at least he can clear some other boats away from danger.

It is good etiquette not to start your engine until the vessel ahead of you has started his. It says to the others “I’m going to wait my turn”

It is polite to exit the lock in the order in which you entered, unless directed otherwise.

Be polite to the keeper; exchange seasons greetings, comment on his floral arrangements, whatever - just make him feel that he is doing something useful and that his presence counts.

Be prepared, and willing to exchange pleasantries with your fellow boaters, and even the shoreside Gongoozlers (folks who watch at Boulter’s Lock et al).

Do not hang about in mid stream if a space is available on a layby (everybody does it, mainly to save their gelcoat, but a boat not making headway has no control.


Although the lock infrastructures are pretty solid, don't cause undue turbulence by rushing in or out, and similarly when using the laybyes.

Don't rush madly between locks, especially if you're towards the back of the gaggle - you won't enjoy the experience and may well miss the next lock-full any way. Just proceed at a reasonable pace; after all that's what you're on the river for, isn't it??

If the lock is unattended, read the instructions and pretend YOU are the lock keeper and act with all the 'professionalism' that goes with the job. If it is clear to you (as a boat following) that one of your peers is operating the mechanism, do go and offer assistance, especially if the sluices are being wound by hand – out of hours. For example “I’ll do the other gates”, or I’ll close up after you.

While on the topic of out of hours operation, don’t leave the gates open if there is no traffic in sight. It’s bad enough to have to turn the handles n hundred times for your passage, without having to repeat half the effort because the previous boater didn’t do his bit.

Remember that each lock on the Thames is different – even if the internal dimensions appear similar, the approach and exit are unique to every lock; strength of weir “pull”, “eddies” caused by the shape and placement of the weir structures can pull or push you in unexpected directions. Learn what you local locks can do to you – even to the extent where you can use the flow to your advantage.


Most of the points above are more about good practice than formal etiquette, but to my mind etiquette is rooted in good practice - even if some of that may well be out of date to modern eyes and deemed to be anachronistic.

Too many people treat the "lock experience" as an unpleasant interlude; best to be endured - not enjoyed. To me locks are part of boating and a welcome change from just moving along. Working through a lock should be done with care and it requires a lot more expertise than plain cruising.

Looks daunting but is mstly common sense and politeness

 

[Mashby]

Thanks TrueBlue
Very Interesting and useful.

In regards to your Bow thrusters on that type and size of boat?????
Sorry I should have been more clear Shetland 25ft.

Thanks again
Matt

 

[jecuk]

Mashby I think his point was that you shouldn't need bow thrusters on a small boat of that type.

 

[Mashby]

Yes doh!!!!! teach me for not reading something properly.
Please ignore previous post. However I would still be interested in seeing how much they would be.

 

[TrueBlue]

Yes doh!!!!! teach me for not reading something properly.
Please ignore previous post. However I would still be interested in seeing how much they would be.

I was being somewhat cheeky, seen by me as over-egging the problem, and de-skilling the art of "navigation".

I can't give you a definitive cost, but I believe they are about £1500 or more.
The problems for smaller craft are -
Where would you fit the unit - they require a through tube from one side of the hull to another, and the motor part wants about 10" clearance above the tube
They take a lot of power, so you would need an additional battery, charging arrangements for it and heavy cables. Add another £500-£1,000?

There has been talk of pumped thrusters (rather than a propeller in a tube) which might fit, but are likely to be just as expensive.

 

[byron]

In answer to your comment on the rarity of Shetland 760s. Shetland boats were founded by John Hardy who later went on to found Hardy Boats almost immediately he went into partnership with Jack Stokes.
By the late 1960s early 1970s they were the largest boat builders in Europe with a 20 acre site producing literally hundreds of boats a month. They showed at boat shows all over the world including New York and Miami. (I actually ran their New York stand for them once). John & Jack sold out to someone who decided they no longer needed an advertising/PR agency as they could do just as good a job themselves so fired the ad/pr agent.
Within months they fell into a decline despite producing some nice models such as the 760. Since then they never recovered their once unassailable position.

Added: A Bow Thruster on a 760. Forget about it.

 

[Ramage]

An RYA Powerboat 1 & 2 course is much cheaper and will do you far more good than a bowthruster on a boat of that size.

I suspect the outboard would be unable to charge the batteries the bowthruster would need!

Please do not hesitate to ask for advice here... most of the natives are reasonably friendly!

 

[teddington_lock]

@ TrueBlue .

That is so well put , that should be printed out and given out with visitors licences !!

Well said.

 

[TrueBlue]

@ TrueBlue .

That is so well put , that should be printed out and given out with visitors licences !!

Well said.

Thank you very much Young Howard! It's great to have some friend on these fora...

I modified it from a thread two years ago, and after toning it down a tad, Mike Gates said he might issue it to new berth holders.

Perhaps I might submit it to Angela Q - if she's still doing that job and see if there's a way of getting it on Visitthames (inexpensive), or otherwise publishing it without it having to be endorsed by EA (assuming they would want to be disassociated).

I remember a little leaflet - I think Chris Cove Smith gave me a copy - handed out on request at some locks some years ago, and that prompted me to amplify it a bit.

Perhaps members here might like to add notes on the subject of locks, or other topics that "non residents" ought to know about.

Question for B1 - Is your web site still active; if so perhaps the text could be added therein?

 

[alruss]

With reference to your tidal Thames questions, there is no limit to your speed downriver of Wandsworth bridge. You are however responsible for your wash and should keep it down, hence the advisory 10kts. Recently, a 12kn limit has been introduced it the pool of London,
and is enforced, even the clippers adhere to it.
If you break down on the non tidal river, you can usually punt yourself ashore or paddle
it with your size. On the tidal Thames, things happen a little quicker, an anchor ready to deploy is useful, but far better is a small auxiliary outboard well maintained, it runs and starts well, that is large enough to give you steerage in the tideway.
As for total no no's, keep right, keep your wash down to min, and do not speed anywhere.
You will probably get yelled at at least once, music too loud etc. etc. do not ignore them and do not wave back, the river is full of people/police that know better than you. That is the same every where I suspect. That should prompt some response.

 

[alruss]

I forgot the bow thruster question, there is a thruster that folds down out of the boat to operate I have no idea of cost but they are for smaller vessels, but very expensive, and as others have said, not worth the expense.

 

[oldgit]

No music not now not never not ever ......Grrr ?

.
"You will probably get yelled at at least once, music too loud etc".


Aha.... so your one of the band of musically incontinent pollutors despoiling the peace and quiet of the river bank.
Have a mate who found it impossible to go anywhere on his gin palace without the turgid drone of some MOR Simon Cowell cack or worse some drum and bass drivel oozing out of his boat speakers normally at sufficient volume to hear the cachophony coming from the saloon speakers with the patio doors shut or 3 miles away from the flybridge speakers.


So then a quick poll . Music on the move......... No or definately No

 

[No Regrets]

Music, Yes!

Drivel, always 'No'

C'mon Oldgit, keep it real!

 

[Mashby]

Many thanks to everyone for their advise. All taken on board and I will use it well.

Heading out on Sunday so might see some of you out and about.

Now if only I had a working stereo

Thanks
Matt

 

[alruss]

The point I was trying to make, not really music noise, more all the other things that people
find annoying, especially non tidal. Example, you are to close to my boat, you have your fenders down, you can not stop there and of course, I would not do it that way. People
seem to have difficulty with any thing that they do not consider normal and get very agitated
if you don't do it their way. The loudest yellers are usually the ones that are wrong.
Oldgit, that does not mean that I yell at every passing boat, or insist that radios are not on and fenders are up etc. I have a radio, London vts do not transmit music.