New Scam on eBay - Very important you read NOW and understand implications

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ontheplane

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I nearly fell victim to a new scam on eBay this week. Boaty stuff is very susceptible as it's often heavy, and valuable so will often be collection only.

I sold an outboard engine on eBay for £300.

I always insist on Cash on Collection with items I am not posting, not accepting paypal, the buyer said this was ok.

Then, midweek I received an email apologising, saying he'd paid by Paypal accidentally whilst paying for something else, which I know can happen as paypal does group items together when you go to pay.

Mentioned it to my wife who told me I must NOT let the buyer collect the item.

If you GOOGLE "scam on ebay with paypal and collecting the item" you'll see that this scam is rife now, and is catching a LOT of honest people out.

Stage 1) Buyer buys something of value that is not easily traceable (laptops, iPads, phones etc etc) that is listed as a Collection only item (or they'll email and say they are local, could they pick up to save courier fees), and you amend total to new amount without postage.

Stage 2) Buyer pays immediately with Paypal

Stage 3) Buyer collects item

All fine so far.

Stage 4) Buyer either

a) Emails you to ask where his item is
or
b) Emails you to ask what time is convenient to collect his item
or
c) Emails you to apologise but his account has been hacked, and where did you post the item to?

With any of the above, buyer then opens a dispute with Paypal. The seller WILL NOT WIN - the ONLY (and I've had this confirmed by both eBay and Paypal) proof that the item has been sent in accordance with Seller Protection is a tracking number from a bona-fide UK Courier company or Royal Mail - proof of posting is no good, it must be a tracking number.

You would think - "Ah, but I got the chap to sign to say he's collected it - I'm ok" - nope.... eBay will NOT accept a signature on any piece of paper, it doesn't matter if you photocopy a driving licence or anything else, Paypal WILL refund the buyer, you will not win the dispute.

You don't have your item, you don't have the money. You could go to the police, but unless they can track down the Paypal owner (the eBay addy will almost certainly be a false address, but to set up Paypal they will have had to give some financial information) but unless the police can find the item at the persons house (and you can bet it will have been sold on) the person simply denies all knowledge, and the police can't prove a thing - This is why people will often claim their account was hacked.

Stupidly, eBay still insist that you have to offer Paypal as a payment option even on collection only items.

Moral of the tale - do NOT accept Paypal on a collection item.
 
ProDave said:
If buyer does "by mistake" pay by PayPal, then refund his paypal payment back to him and instruct him to bring cash when he comes to collect it.
Click to expand...

My thought would be to cancel the sale at that point - why would I want to continue to deal with a scammer? Although you'd probably end up in ebay's bad books again by doing that, which is why I do not sell anything on eBay any more. It's a great place to buy things, but in encouraging that they've given up any pretence of fairness to both sides and moved to "the customer (buyer) is always right".

Fortunately I have this place to sell boat stuff, a forum at work (about 2000 people on site) to sell general household stuff, and occasionally freecycle to dispose of bulky items of limited value.

Pete
 
Well might not be new, but from what I understand, most people are unaware of it.

Yes you can refund the payment, but the problem then is you can't open a case as the buyer HAS paid (and you refunded it) so you can't terminate the sale and get a refund of final value fee.

It's just a huge pain in the a55
 
ebay is a rip off
I'm always getting people trying it on, I will not send items to france or Ireland
once in those country's royal mail signed for is a waste of time

paypal always sides with buyers I've had carbs stripped and second hand parts put back and sent back yet paypal ignores that theft. sellers lose on ebay their fees are way to expensive if a buyer dicides they don't want it you the seller lose the cost of post !! distance selling regulations are fine in a perfect honest world but not on ebay
 
That scam has been around for years.

It still amazes me that people put items on for collection only, then speciffically ask for payment by paypal !?!

There is a couple of addendum's to be aware of, Ebay exclude all vehicle sales from the Paypal guarantee, along with any item that is considered too big to post. For instance you can sell a car and take payment by paypal and the buyer cant claim the cash back, this also applies to boats. This is a problem if you are BUYING an inflatable tender, you cant get your money back if it doesnt arrive. So its safe to sell and post a boat, but you have to aware of the risks when buying a boat for delivery.

I think this scam will soon be a problem of the past, you can currently buy a card reader from Paypal to take payments if someone wants to pay directly and pick the item up, it only costs £50 and gets rid of most of the refund problems for non delivery (But not for non performance). I predict this will be available as a free phone app within a couple of years.

Ebay is only as good as the people that use it, often the people that lose out havent done their homework. Read and understand the rules and ebay is a safe place to buy and sell, but with very high fees :rolleyes: . The trade off for the fees is that you get full market value for your items.

After 14 years on ebay and over 500 positive sales, I got my first negative last weekend. It was for the sale of a car and from a non contacting, non paying newbie. I followed the rules and ebay were superb, negative removed immediately, full final value credit and buyer banned from ebay.
 
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I think ebay is suffering and I think they know it, they are now offering 20 items per month you can list for free and you only pay if the item sells so I think they have done this due to a fall in ebay traffic

I now use gumtree to sell the odd thing I sold a £170 mower last week and it cost me nothing it was all completely free yet I think ebay would have charged me about £20 for the sale

it does work sometimes as I bought a vent for my eberspacher and it was the wrong one sent out the seller wanted me to pay return postage and I refused telling them to collect it as it was their mistake but they refused so we were at a stalemate, I opened a case and even though I never returned the item paypal STILL refunded me my money in full and I still have the vent
 
I doubt they are suffering, the listing fees are tiny compared to the final value fee, it costs less than 10p to list an item normally. Its just a very clever bit of marketing.

When ebay started, total fees on a sale including Paypal came to less than 5%, now its up to nearer 15% :(

But the upside is the excellent prices you get, sold a 10 year old tender engine last week for £100 more than I paid for it when it was new :) (99p start and no reserve)
 
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Not only that but.....

With items that are posted and tracked by Royal Mail etc. you can get caught on the "Returned Item". Buyer purchases something, pays via Paypal and then once it arrives raises a dispute on it when it arrives stating that it is "not as described".

Paypal then witholds the funds until it is returned. The proof of return is considered to be a Royal Mail tracked delivery with signature. However, they do not check the address it is sent to and who signed for its return. They refunded the money to the purchaser once it has been signed for and I now have no money and no parts.

They will not enter into a further dispute. They say my dispute is with the post office, the post office will not talk to me as I am the recipient, not the sender.


So buy what you like, dispute it and return it to your mates so they sign for it and you have the item and your money back.
 
landlockedpirate said:
When ebay started, total fees on a sale including Paypal came to less than 5%
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When eBay started, PayPal wasn't a thing :)

I remember posting cheques to people, and waiting for them to clear before the item was sent. A typical sale involved exchanging a lot of emails! eBay didn't really get involved - once the winning bid was decided, they'd give you each other's email address and leave you to get on with it. It was almost entirely person-to-person, businesses were the exception and considered not quite proper. The whole experience felt a lot more like buying and selling on the For Sale forum here.

How times change.

Pete
 
prv said:
When eBay started, PayPal wasn't a thing :)

I remember posting cheques to people, and waiting for them to clear before the item was sent. A typical sale involved exchanging a lot of emails! eBay didn't really get involved - once the winning bid was decided, they'd give you each other's email address and leave you to get on with it. It was almost entirely person-to-person, businesses were the exception and considered not quite proper. The whole experience felt a lot more like buying and selling on the For Sale forum here.

How times change.

Pete
Click to expand...

" item not released until cheque clears " :rolleyes::)
 
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