new RYA shorebased course - basic nav and safety

[wotayottie]

Has anybody done the new "Basic Nav and Safety " shorebased course yet? If you've done it, what did you think of it? Did you do it all in 2 days or as a nightschool class?

Not a very good name for something that looks to have much of the day skipper course in it and I suspect many people will assume that they are past "basic" training. That would be a pity because the syllabus looks a lot less theoretical and rather more practical than the DS and YM.. Plus its aimed at mobo users who generally speaking do a lot fewer courses than yotties.

 

[Athene V30]

How can you train someone to be a day skipper in 2 days??

It is just like these 'pass you driving test in a week' courses. Yes, you may pass but are you actually safe? Whilst attending courses is a help, to me learning comes with experience and 2 day courses can be nothing more than to show what a lot you need to know to be self sufficient. I do worry that someone completing the 2 days will think they know it all and then end up having to risk the lives of the Coastguard, RNLI and other water users.

I got my YM in 1982 aged 20 having sailed for 7 years in dinghies, keel boats and offshore, spending 6 weeks of each summer cruising (as well as other times of year) and as skipper of boats (with and without engines). I did YM Offshore theory navigating a desk around and learnt nothing but needed the piece of paper to qualify. I would not profess to know it all but I do think I can put to sea safely and not be a hazard to others.

Rant over!

 

[wotayottie]

The course is about teaching the basics of navigation to people who know nothing . Its nothing to do with becoming a Day Skipper in 2 days - you get the Day Skipper ticket after a practical course, just like you did for your Yachtmaster.

Presumably you would prefer them to go to sea without any training after which they would have magically learned the three point fix! Just as a matter of curiosity, how did you learn to read? Was it sat at a deck in a school?

 

[rusailing]

wow, are you two old enemies!? Only Joking.

We will be running the course this year from our base in Portugal. I think it will be perfectly placed to get newcomers encouraged to go on and posiibly do their full DS theory. The RYA is all about encouraging people and raising the levels of their safety and enjoyment. Their new course is well placed.

We're offering it along with Start Yachting as a combination so that people can see what's in front of them before embarking on the 'let's sell up dear' routine.

Looking forward to teaching it.

Chears, Rob

PS I learnt to read behind a desk.

 

[Athene V30]

My post was, as it says at the bottom, my RANT! Your original post stated[ QUOTE ]
that looks to have much of the day skipper course in it

[/ QUOTE ] which led me to think it did what you said. In your later post you then state [ QUOTE ]
Its nothing to do with becoming a Day Skipper in 2 days

[/ QUOTE ]
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
[ QUOTE ]
Presumably you would prefer them to go to sea without any training after which they would have magically learned the three point fix!

[/ QUOTE ] No read my post and I do say that 'Whilst attending courses is a help' but I feel that you need practical experience too. I can still remember trying to take a fix and plot it in the Alderney Race with the boat being bounced about - quite a difference from a classroom.
[ QUOTE ]
Just as a matter of curiosity, how did you learn to read? Was it sat at a deck in a school?

[/ QUOTE ]
No it was with my parents at home before I ever went to school by looking at books from an early age etc, just as we have with our 4 children.

My post was never intended to offend anyone. I just feel that this type of course can be misleading and give folk the feeling that they are better prepared than they really are.

 

[Athene V30]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it will be perfectly placed to get newcomers encouraged to go on and posiibly do their full DS theory. The RYA is all about encouraging people and raising the levels of their safety and enjoyment. Their new course is well placed.

[/ QUOTE ] I hope you are right as your next comment about selling up and ending up outside their skill base is the fear I have.

[ QUOTE ]
We're offering it along with Start Yachting as a combination so that people can see what's in front of them before embarking on the 'let's sell up dear' routine.


[/ QUOTE ]

 

[wotayottie]

[ QUOTE ]
wow, are you two old enemies!? Only Joking.

We will be running the course this year from our base in Portugal. I think it will be perfectly placed to get newcomers encouraged to go on and posiibly do their full DS theory. The RYA is all about encouraging people and raising the levels of their safety and enjoyment. Their new course is well placed.

We're offering it along with Start Yachting as a combination so that people can see what's in front of them before embarking on the 'let's sell up dear' routine.

Looking forward to teaching it.

Chears, Rob

PS I learnt to read behind a desk.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, of course not Rob. Its just a bit irritating when posters knock the RYA courses which after all can only improve people's knowledge and abilities. The irony is that even the RN are using them now.

Nevertheless I probably was a bit snotty and for that I apologise. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

I'm curious about this particular course. Where I previously ran courses, I never had any problems rolling in the numbers for the DS and YM theory, but the first offering of this new course brought not a single student. I wondered why. And I still suspect the b word is the reason. Flash Harry in his 300hp 14 ft power boat says to his girl " I'm doing basic navigation at night school this winter". That's not going to improve his chances.

Maybe I should advertise it as an Advanced course. After all, beginners can hardly fail to advance. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

P.S. The same place you learned spelling?

 

[gavin_lacey]

This new course is obvious in its intent but I wonder wwhether it hits the mark. 20 years ago my first boat was 21 ft and I made a lot of mistakes and learnt a lot bashing around chichester harbour and the solent. I did not damage anything because the boat was light enough to fend off with a shove of the hand. I slowly worked up in boat size and gained qualifications. The modern introduction to sailing is far more likely to be through chartering 30 to 40 foot boats in a sheltered environment (flottila) and then the first boat is of this size. I do wonder if the RYA syllabi are geared for the new way. I am not sure if someone with the very limited experience afforded by even a day skipper course is really ready to take command of a 9 ton boat in a breeze in a marina. You cant shove off with one hand and they can make big and expensive dents. The ICC which is given after a day skipper course allows boats up to 24m - 80 tons. good grief!

 

[martindinham]

Well, speaking as somebody who's actually taken the course (local authority adult education, 2 days), I think its useful. I was after a very basic intro to navigation, as despite 30 odd years of sailing experience I've never undergone a formal course on this. For me, some of the other safety related stuff was a little "noddy", but I think that the course, so long as its taken as it's intended (ie an intro rather than a Dayskipper or other type qualification) is excellent.

 

[wotayottie]

I think you are missing the point of the RYA qualifications. They arent actually qualifications in a real sense as they dont qualify you to do anything and absence of them doesnt stop you doing anything in the UK. the ICC is an invention designed to appeal to license happy continentals and initially it was simply signed by the commodore of your club who knew you wre a sound chap. foreigners objected to this so now there is a token test involved, but dont kid yourself that it qualifies you to do anything.

for the vaste majority of us the rya scheme is really about self improvement. OK you can learn a lot pottering about chichester harbour on your own, but that wont teach you about secondary port calculations or single point fixes. for these you need a teacher be it an RYA instructor like me or your mate. doesnt really matter as long as the info gets in.

equally, you cant learn everything you need to know in a classroom or on a five day course. you need miles under the keel. but if you do the courses, do the sailing and put yourself through some independant examination you cant fail to be a better sailor in my view.

sadly you will read a lot of knocking copy on here. I suspect that most of it comes from people who have done a fair bit of sailing but are nervous about taking the exams and failing.

P.S For the benefit of those falling over themselves to point out that some professional skippers have to have rya qualifications and the ym is bot - yes, I know but thats irrelevant to the remaining 99% of us.

 

[rusailing]

sorry about the typo's - have enlisted the help of the preview /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Feel you may be right about the 'Basic' being the problem... I discussed this and the course with Simon Jinks while he was here last year. As with dropping the words 'Coastal Skipper' soon from their vocabulary, they do think about how they word things. Maybe they could have done better this time.

 

[graham]

Its a shame about the lack of interest. I seriously wonder if the availability of cheaper chart plotters is partly to blame. Im convinced that there are lots of people afloat who will come unstuck if their electronics fail at the wrong time.

Perhaps those who do want to learn would rather go down the well trodden path of comp crew ,dayskipper YM etc.

 

[ditchcrawler]

We ran the course at our club(Woodbridge Cruising Club) last weekend & it was well received.A few sailing wives did it & said they learnt a good deal although they had been sailing with better halves for some time.(says more about the better halves ?)

 

[tangomoon]

It's yet ANOTHER course the RYA have slipped in and no doubt will make its completion a criteria for Day Skipper entry in due course. Money, money, money - lovely for them.