New member - Orwell cruising - Crossing to Stellendam

[Graefin]

Folks, where can I get reliable cruising information for the Orwell and the pottering in front of Felixstowe and Harwich? I recently bought my first big boat - a Contessa 26 - and I want to spend a couple days proving everything before a delivery skipper helps me get it over to Stellendam and the Hollands Deep where it will stay for the foreseeable. I've got my Imray Y6, though the children have eaten the tide table that goes with, and it's proving an expensive couple of months, so I'd like to avoid buying a cruising guide for two days if I can. Is there reliable information somewhere online? I've heard a little local knowledge goes a long way
And a brief thank you - I've been getting titbits and nuggets from YBW for a couple of years now as I've researched my day skipper, VHF licence, chartering and buying a boat, so thank you all for the handy hints you've been posting - this is really what the internet is all about.
Looking forward to hearing from you, Graefin.

 

[LittleSister]

Welcome to the East Coast Forum,

I'm not clear exactly what info you are looking for re Orwell, Felixstowe and Harwich, but maybe some or all of the following may be of help..

This 2022 Guide from the Harwich Harbour Authority (HHA) may help https://hha.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/HHA-Yachting-Guide-2022-COMPO-FINAL-LOW-PJ.pdf
You can also get this 2022 tide table from HHA https://hha.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/TT-individual-pages-2022.pdf
and live tidal data and Notices to Mariners (the latter also reported weekly on the YBW East Coast Forum by Tiller Girl) Live Data | Weather, Tide, Sailing information - Harwich, Felixstowe, Ipswich | Harwich Haven Authority

Coming from upstream on the Orwell -
a) Keep a very good look out (including behind you!) on the Orwell above Felixstowe for any ships passing to/from Ipswich.
b) In the vicinity of Felixstowe keep out of, and to the west of, the deep water channel unless you are certain that you will not be impeding ships either passing up or down the river, or coming into/out of berths or turning (often with accompanying tugs), and other working craft including fast Pilot boats. (See recommended yacht track on the charts.)
c) Some find it useful to Monitor the Port VTS on VHF Channel 71 to get an idea of what the shipping is up to.
d) There is quite often dredging or surveying going on in or around the deep water channel (detailed in Notices to Mariners), so keep clear of boats showing the appropriate shapes or lights for restricted in ability to manoeuvre.
e) When crossing the junction with the Stour beware of ships (including large ferries and the small yellow harbour pedestrian ferry) coming out of or turning into it. (Don't assume incoming ships are necessarily going up the Orwell - they may turn into the Stour at the last minute!)
f) Just to the south of this, on the Harwich side, are the berths of the Harwich Pilot boats. They go to and fro very fast!
g) South of the Stour, keep east of the Harwich Shelf buoy (small East Cardinal), i.e close up alongside the deep water channel, well marked by large buoys, unless you are sure of what you are doing. The shallow water inshore of this - The Shelf - often catches the unwary!
h) To the south of this is a low breakwater projecting from the shore. It can be difficult to spot this around high water, when it is awash, or at night, despite a small lit (red) beacon on its end.
i) Watch out for small unmarked pot buoys, especially between the end of the breakwater and the deep water channel and just upstream of there.
j) Once outside the harbour, the deep water channel swings to head roughly easterly, with the recommended yacht/small craft track staying to its south. The sharp bend here in the main channel can be quite challenging for some ships, which are often assisted by tugs, so keep a very good look out and keep well clear.
k) Note the recommended yacht/small craft crossing point for getting across the deep water channel if you want to head north. This point gives both a short crossing of the channel and the best visibility of ships and other vessels (some very fast!) from both directions. You are not obliged to cross here, but if doing so elsewhere be very even more sure you are not going to be impeding shipping or working craft, avoid crossing obliquely, don't dawdle, and keep a sharp eye out.
l) Shifting back up to the Stour, this river is much quieter than the Orwell, certainly once you get past Harwich and the ferry terminal at Parkstone Quay, but do still keep an eye out. I believe there may still be the occasional small ship going up as far as Mistley.

All that may make it seem complicated and fraught, but once you get the lie of the land it really isn't if you just follow sensible precautions and advice. It's a great cruising area. Enjoy.

Others will be better placed to advise you on routing for Stellendam.

 

[johnalison]

Ou really need to be well versed in knowledge of the area off the Orwell before venturing out that way. There are essentially two ways round the Cork Sands, with the choice depending on the tide. It is not particularly difficult but it can lead to disorientation in some people. The only way to deal with it is via large scale charts, which need to be studied and the significant hazards noted. Shipping is not hard to avoid but they are not known for their sense of humour when dealing with errant yachts. Basically, you need to know where you are at all times, and where you are heading. After that, it is just a matter of dodging wind farms.

 

[Tranona]

Folks, where can I get reliable cruising information for the Orwell and the pottering in front of Felixstowe and Harwich? I recently bought my first big boat - a Contessa 26 - and I want to spend a couple days proving everything before a delivery skipper helps me get it over to Stellendam and the Hollands Deep where it will stay for the foreseeable. I've got my Imray Y6, though the children have eaten the tide table that goes with, and it's proving an expensive couple of months, so I'd like to avoid buying a cruising guide for two days if I can. Is there reliable information somewhere online? I've heard a little local knowledge goes a long way
And a brief thank you - I've been getting titbits and nuggets from YBW for a couple of years now as I've researched my day skipper, VHF licence, chartering and buying a boat, so thank you all for the handy hints you've been posting - this is really what the internet is all about.
Looking forward to hearing from you, Graefin.

Can't help with sailing around the Orwell - not been there for nearly 50 years!

However have you checked out the formalities of importing an old boat from the UK to the EU if you are an EU resident. You will be required to pay VAT and more importantly have the boat certified to EU RCD standards - which the boat you have bought will not meet. There is no legal way of avoiding either of these rules and you can neither sell or use the boat in the EU.

 

[Graefin]

Welcome to the East Coast Forum,

I'm not clear exactly what info you are looking for re Orwell, Felixstowe and Harwich, but maybe some or all of the following may be of help..

This 2022 Guide from the Harwich Harbour Authority (HHA) may help https://hha.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/HHA-Yachting-Guide-2022-COMPO-FINAL-LOW-PJ.pdf
You can also get this 2022 tide table from HHA https://hha.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/TT-individual-pages-2022.pdf
and live tidal data and Notices to Mariners (the latter also reported weekly on the YBW East Coast Forum by Tiller Girl) Live Data | Weather, Tide, Sailing information - Harwich, Felixstowe, Ipswich | Harwich Haven Authority

Coming from upstream on the Orwell -
a) Keep a very good look out (including behind you!) on the Orwell above Felixstowe for any ships passing to/from Ipswich.
b) In the vicinity of Felixstowe keep out of, and to the west of, the deep water channel unless you are certain that you will not be impeding ships either passing up or down the river, or coming into/out of berths or turning (often with accompanying tugs), and other working craft including fast Pilot boats. (See recommended yacht track on the charts.)
c) Some find it useful to Monitor the Port VTS on VHF Channel 71 to get an idea of what the shipping is up to.
d) There is quite often dredging or surveying going on in or around the deep water channel (detailed in Notices to Mariners), so keep clear of boats showing the appropriate shapes or lights for restricted in ability to manoeuvre.
e) When crossing the junction with the Stour beware of ships (including large ferries and the small yellow harbour pedestrian ferry) coming out of or turning into it. (Don't assume incoming ships are necessarily going up the Orwell - they may turn into the Stour at the last minute!)
f) Just to the south of this, on the Harwich side, are the berths of the Harwich Pilot boats. They go to and fro very fast!
g) South of the Stour, keep east of the Harwich Shelf buoy (small East Cardinal), i.e close up alongside the deep water channel, well marked by large buoys, unless you are sure of what you are doing. The shallow water inshore of this - The Shelf - often catches the unwary!
h) To the south of this is a low breakwater projecting from the shore. It can be difficult to spot this around high water, when it is awash, or at night, despite a small lit (red) beacon on its end.
i) Watch out for small unmarked pot buoys, especially between the end of the breakwater and the deep water channel and just upstream of there.
j) Once outside the harbour, the deep water channel swings to head roughly easterly, with the recommended yacht/small craft track staying to its south. The sharp bend here in the main channel can be quite challenging for some ships, which are often assisted by tugs, so keep a very good look out and keep well clear.
k) Note the recommended yacht/small craft crossing point for getting across the deep water channel if you want to head north. This point gives both a short crossing of the channel and the best visibility of ships and other vessels (some very fast!) from both directions. You are not obliged to cross here, but if doing so elsewhere be very even more sure you are not going to be impeding shipping or working craft, avoid crossing obliquely, don't dawdle, and keep a sharp eye out.
l) Shifting back up to the Stour, this river is much quieter than the Orwell, certainly once you get past Harwich and the ferry terminal at Parkstone Quay, but do still keep an eye out. I believe there may still be the occasional small ship going up as far as Mistley.

All that may make it seem complicated and fraught, but once you get the lie of the land it really isn't if you just follow sensible precautions and advice. It's a great cruising area. Enjoy.

Others will be better placed to advise you on routing for Stellendam.

Thanks LittleSister, that's exactly the information I was after. I've scouted round the HHA site and found some excellent resources there (including the guide you linked and some good quality tide maps) and thanks for the notes A to L.
G.

 

[Graefin]

Ou really need to be well versed in knowledge of the area off the Orwell before venturing out that way. There are essentially two ways round the Cork Sands, with the choice depending on the tide. It is not particularly difficult but it can lead to disorientation in some people. The only way to deal with it is via large scale charts, which need to be studied and the significant hazards noted. Shipping is not hard to avoid but they are not known for their sense of humour when dealing with errant yachts. Basically, you need to know where you are at all times, and where you are heading. After that, it is just a matter of dodging wind farms.

Thanks johnalison, I've taken your advice and ordered Admiralty 1491. For "two ways round the Cork Sands, with the choice depending on the tide" could you elaborate?
Cheers, G.

 

[Graefin]

Can't help with sailing around the Orwell - not been there for nearly 50 years!
However have you checked out the formalities of importing an old boat from the UK to the EU if you are an EU resident. You will be required to pay VAT and more importantly have the boat certified to EU RCD standards - which the boat you have bought will not meet. There is no legal way of avoiding either of these rules and you can neither sell or use the boat in the EU.

Thanks Tranona, I had forgotten about the RCD regs. I remember chatting about it with another Dutch Contessa friend and we think we're exempt on grounds of boats being too old (first time I can call on grandfather rights!).
G.

 

[dolabriform]

Thanks Tranona, I had forgotten about the RCD regs. I remember chatting about it with another Dutch Contessa friend and we think we're exempt on grounds of boats being too old (first time I can call on grandfather rights!).
G.

Looking at this info, it appears you are correct.
Importing a non-CE boat into Europe: what is CE certification for boats?
Another essential condition for the nationalization of non-EU recreational crafts and for sailing in European waters is that the vessels carry the CE marking.

Otherwise, it will be necessary to prove that they had been marketed or built in the community area before 1998, that is when vessels were built and enabled for navigation on the basis of the technical criteria established by Law 50/71.

From:
Importing A Non-CE Boat Into Europe - Tax - European Union

 

[Graefin]

Thanks everyone for your contributions. We sailed over a couple weekends ago, and the Orwell-Harwich part was a real pleasure. The Harwich Havens guide and @LittleSister's tips about the sand bar were invaluable. Also it was nice coming over on the ferry the night before... we got to see a bird's eye view of the whole area and get the lay of the land... no... sea... no... never mind!
Graefin.

 

[Paulfireblade]

Welcome to the East Coast Forum,

I'm not clear exactly what info you are looking for re Orwell, Felixstowe and Harwich, but maybe some or all of the following may be of help..

This 2022 Guide from the Harwich Harbour Authority (HHA) may help https://hha.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/HHA-Yachting-Guide-2022-COMPO-FINAL-LOW-PJ.pdf
You can also get this 2022 tide table from HHA https://hha.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/TT-individual-pages-2022.pdf
and live tidal data and Notices to Mariners (the latter also reported weekly on the YBW East Coast Forum by Tiller Girl) Live Data | Weather, Tide, Sailing information - Harwich, Felixstowe, Ipswich | Harwich Haven Authority


c) Some find it useful to Monitor the Port VTS on VHF Channel 71 to get an idea of what the shipping is up to.

Others will be better placed to advise you on routing for Stellendam.

Very informative post which I read with interest as a fairly new sailor who keeps his boat at Shotley.

I always keep to the Yacht track and monitor Harwich VTS and sometimes you hear a sailboat requesting permission to enter Harbour, is this because they are re-entering the UK or some other reason.

 

[Tomahawk]

The first law of TSS. The horizon will be empty as you approach.. but just before you enter there will be a wall of steel approaching that will coincide with your crossing.. and they will all disappear over the horizon when you clear the other side..

 

[johnalison]

The first law of TSS. The horizon will be empty as you approach.. but just before you enter there will be a wall of steel approaching that will coincide with your crossing.. and they will all disappear over the horizon when you clear the other side..

In that case it is better to just shut your eyes and go for it. The chances of actually hitting anything are tiny. I think there was a thread about this a few years ago, with people doing the arithmetic for me. In nearly forty years of sea crossings I don’t think we have ever come close enough to a ship to be alarmed about it, or even to need to call one up on VHF.
Caveat for novices; the above is not to be used for navigation.

 

[LittleSister]

In that case it is better to just shut your eyes and go for it. The chances of actually hitting anything are tiny. I think there was a thread about this a few years ago, with people doing the arithmetic for me. In nearly forty years of sea crossings I don’t think we have ever come close enough to a ship to be alarmed about it, or even to need to call one up on VHF.
Caveat for novices; the above is not to be used for navigation.

There was an American yachting writer (mentioned on Sailing Anarchy, I think) who, addressing the problem of long distance single-handed handed sailors unable to keep a 24 hour watch for ships, did a detailed calculation on the density of shipping on the West Coast of the USA to calculate the odds of a collision. He concluded the chances of actually colliding with a ship were so amazingly tiny it was not worth worrying about, and for his own part just slept when he wanted to without further precautions. He revised his opinion after actually colliding with a ship and living to tell the tale!

Of course, the waters around our UK coast are much busier than most of those of the USA West Coast, so definitely not recommended around here .

 

[Tomahawk]

In that case it is better to just shut your eyes and go for it. The chances of actually hitting anything are tiny. I think there was a thread about this a few years ago, with people doing the arithmetic for me. In nearly forty years of sea crossings I don’t think we have ever come close enough to a ship to be alarmed about it, or even to need to call one up on VHF.
Caveat for novices; the above is not to be used for navigation.

I have been close enough to warrant a change of course.. Once was seeing a bow wave on my Stb side come out the fog

 

[Daydream believer]

Many years ago, in my Stella, in the North sea, en route from Ostend to Burnham, there was a smallish ship whose propellor was partly out of the water. I got in the way & it had to change course & the prop threw water into the cockpit as it turned, it was so close. The skipper shouted some rather rude comment from the bridge. I have been missed by one of the Evergreen vessels that appeared out of the fog by about 1.5 of my boat lengths, I have been almost rammed by a supply vessel in the Dover strait that changed course without looking & nearly hit me. I have had numerous close encounters with all types of vessel; including fishing boats that are clearly NOT fishing.

The risk of collision in the S North sea is a serious issue & one has to be aware of what is around one & what is coming at all times. I now have AIS & have been contacted, a number of times, by vessels- at up to 10 miles range -advising me that they are changing course for me ; so would I hold mine;. I have been asked to change course by ships, because they cannot change due to the presence of other ships making it awkward for them to manouver. All of those instances could have resulted in dangerously close encounters.

 

[LittleSister]

Many years ago, in my Stella, in the North sea, en route from Ostend to Burnham, there was a smallish ship whose propellor was partly out of the water. I got in the way & it had to change course & the prop threw water into the cockpit as it turned, it was so close. The skipper shouted some rather rude comment from the bridge. I have been missed by one of the Evergreen vessels that appeared out of the fog by about 1.5 of my boat lengths, I have been almost rammed by a supply vessel in the Dover strait that changed course without looking & nearly hit me. I have had numerous close encounters with all types of vessel; including fishing boats that are clearly NOT fishing.

Daydream believer, you must have a very magnetic personality, the way you attract both ships and customs/border officials!

 

[johnalison]

Many years ago, in my Stella, in the North sea, en route from Ostend to Burnham, there was a smallish ship whose propellor was partly out of the water. I got in the way & it had to change course & the prop threw water into the cockpit as it turned, it was so close. The skipper shouted some rather rude comment from the bridge. I have been missed by one of the Evergreen vessels that appeared out of the fog by about 1.5 of my boat lengths, I have been almost rammed by a supply vessel in the Dover strait that changed course without looking & nearly hit me. I have had numerous close encounters with all types of vessel; including fishing boats that are clearly NOT fishing.

The risk of collision in the S North sea is a serious issue & one has to be aware of what is around one & what is coming at all times. I now have AIS & have been contacted, a number of times, by vessels- at up to 10 miles range -advising me that they are changing course for me ; so would I hold mine;. I have been asked to change course by ships, because they cannot change due to the presence of other ships making it awkward for them to manouver. All of those instances could have resulted in dangerously close encounters.

I hope that you weren’t taking my reply to Tomahawk too seriously, even though the arithmetic seems to support it. My relative freedom from adverse events may be because I have generally taken care to keep well clear of ships, though I am not one of those who advocate changing course to pass the stern of every one. Alternatively, it may be that the deities have rewarded me for my virtue, or more likely the libations made in their honour. I agree that it is a problem to be taken seriously and all sensible measures taken to avoid conflict. However, collisions are pretty rare and I wouldn’t want to alarm or spoil the enjoyment of those new to the game.

 

[Major_Clanger]

I'd only add to the excellent advice you've already had, that you should spend a bit longer exploring the local rivers. The Orwell, Stour and Deben have completely different personalities in spite of the fact they're so close to one another. Have some fun rather than just getting the boat on point - great choice by the way, CO26s are bloody great little boats (especially if you like getting wet!).