New mast,how much?

30boat

30boat

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As a result of my recent fling with a ship I came to the conclusion that I need a
new mast.I went up today to fit a spreader bracket and it didn't go in.The rivet holes didn't align and upon further inspection it became clear that there was a slight indentation where the fitting compressed the mast wall.The track had also been narrowed by about 3mm.The spreader fitting itself had been smashed when it tuched the ship's side.
The deformation isn't huge and I'm pretty sure I could coerce the fitting into place but I would never be able to trust that rig again .II have emailed the news to my insurers and can safely guess they will fight this as much as they can.Is there any tecnhical text on the structural integrity of spars I could use to base my points on?And does anybody have any Idea of the cost of an approximately 12m long mast?
Thanks
vau01.jpg

That's the new fitting lightly held in place by by a partially compressed rivet.
 
Last edited:
...having been dismasted myself earlier this year I have huge sympathy...

...I'm not sure how much this will help as my boat is a 19 foot'er - the mast is 22 foot so 7m - significantly smaller than yours but the following may help...

...I was quoted a new mast and swapping over all fittings (gooseneck, spreaders, mastfoot and masthead etc) - mast from Z Spars (their web site is good - no prices though - you tell them the details and they send you a price) - at about £1800 ex vat.

I went with a repair in the end which was much less - but my damage was to the mast foot so easier to do...

...having gone through it, and being relatively inexperienced, my experience is:
  1. if at all possible repair
  2. if you can't repair try and find second hand
  3. then go new...

...good luck... :o
 
It can probaly be repaired good as new with an internal sleeve.
You'll need to find out who made it and contact them, or a rig specialist will either help you or give you proper advice that it needs replacement, which should convince your insurers.
 
mate of mine had a 26 ft boat and had a kink in track, and ended up with a new mast he had to pay 1/3 rd of cost, and i think it was around 3k in total for the mast and fittings, but this was before the hike in metal prices.
 
lw395 said:
It can probaly be repaired good as new with an internal sleeve.
You'll need to find out who made it and contact them, or a rig specialist will either help you or give you proper advice that it needs replacement, which should convince your insurers.
Click to expand...

It's was made by Kemp Masts and they're no longer trading.I don't think a sleeve would be adequate as the spreaders are 8m or so high up and the area is very highly loaded.I'll try and get a statement from a mast supplier stating that a new one is the way to go.
 
30boat said:
It's was made by Kemp Masts and they're no longer trading.I don't think a sleeve would be adequate as the spreaders are 8m or so high up and the area is very highly loaded.I'll try and get a statement from a mast supplier stating that a new one is the way to go.
Click to expand...

Kemp are now part of Selden.
I've seen racing masts sleeved in this area, can be fine if done right.
But if selden say no, then insurance co should do the decent thing.
Good luck.
 
Mast Replaceement

Of course I can't see the mast but my reaction is that the mast will be fine. I can imagine a large bang on the end of the spreader would dent the mast in to the point of denting the track. But actually this part of the mast is not heavily loaded being supported by intermediate stays.
What is important though is that it looks like a fractional rig with spreaders swept aft. this angle of sweep aft is vital and any breakage or slip that allows the spreader to swing forward to square will allow the mast to crumple middle backwards in a heap. So check that aspect.
Yes I appreciate you want the mast back to perfect but if it going to cost you an arma and a leg eveen with insurance I would say leave it. Or at least get an expert opinion. good luck olewill
 
30boat said:
As a result of my recent fling with a ship I came to the conclusion that I need a
new mast.I went up today to fit a spreader bracket and it didn't go in.The rivet holes didn't align and upon further inspection it became clear that there was a slight indentation where the fitting compressed the mast wall.The track had also been narrowed by about 3mm.The spreader fitting itself had been smashed when it tuched the ship's side.
The deformation isn't huge and I'm pretty sure I could coerce the fitting into place but I would never be able to trust that rig again .II have emailed the news to my insurers and can safely guess they will fight this as much as they can.Is there any tecnhical text on the structural integrity of spars I could use to base my points on?And does anybody have any Idea of the cost of an approximately 12m long mast?
Thanks
vau01.jpg

That's the new fitting lightly held in place by by a partially compressed rivet.
Click to expand...
13.5m mast, delivered Perigny to Argelés, €1485, including caps, 2ndary and inners, (but not fore or backstay), heel-fitting and collar with all 8 deck pulleys.
Mast section 175 x 145mm, tapered and anodised.

The insurers, Navigators & General (part Zurich) refused to pay up on the basis that neoprene not hardwood wedges should have been used.

Needless to say I'm not with Navigators & General, & not one professional rigger I've met uses anything but hardwood for their wedging the mast.

The last put in to correct olewill's misapprehension that insurers pay for accidental damage to masts.

If correctly manufactured, your mast should have a compression member between the two spreader sockets, so the danger of collapse would be minimised in that case.
 
Can't remember his name right now, but one of the Yacht agents in Vilamoura is also an agent for Seldon. His other half(Canadian) makes sails. Assuming they are still there. (6yrs ago) I had a very similar problem and he was helpfull. Smaller boat and no ins. Unfortunately we couldn't ID the section from the current list, so no sleeve.
A
 
Masts are repairable in most cases; for as long as they have a piece of the same mast section they will put a sleeve internally and riveted. On my previous yacht, Bruce Roberts with a 36 ft thick section Z spars mast, when the mast broke in two pieces, 13 years ago, it was taken to Z spars to insert a sleeve; it was an excellent workmanship and stronger than before.
 
My understanding is that insurance cos write your rig's value down over its theoretical lifespan.This applies most noticeably to standing rigging which in 'their' eyes has but a 10 year life.
So I would be amazed (and delighted) for you if they agree to replace like for like, less excess, but I would think a good inspection by surveyor or surveyor/rigger is the next step.

Myself, after a bang like that and planning more solo offshore stuff, I would be thinking long term to fit a new mast section and swap over what you can and whatever will fit, just for true peace of mind. I am sure you can daysail as it is.
Those alloy spreader castings don't like being distorted, and what exactly is now the state of whatever is attaching them to the mast, etc? Are you going to do more damage opening up the pinched mast track? Is the spar really still straight when you loosen off the standing rigging?
 
Good morning:

Having had my mast fall down and break I can understand the panic and concern about repairing and trying to make it as good as new however once you begin to investigate most of these concerns should disappear.

I had to remove about 8 inches from my mast just below the spreaders to get rid of the jagged edges - wrapped the mast with tape and used this a guide when cutting off the bits with an angle grinder.

Once both pieces would fit together neatly I made up three pieces of 1.5 mm aluminum sheets of 40, 50 and 60 cm and using the cut off ends as a template rolled these pieces to fit neatly inside the mast. I rigged up the two pieces so they were perfectly aligned and inserted first the 60 mm sleeve followed by the 50 and then 40 mm sleeves in the lower section of the mast securing each by pop rivets before inserting the next. I then pushed the top section of the mast over the combined sleeves and pop rivetted in place. I used a marker pen to mark the spots for the rivets - think they were about 5 cm apart.

The mast has stood the test of time (18 years) and I have since noticed that many, many masts are joined with sleeves - hadn't paid much mind previously.

One point is that the mast is mainly under pressure from top to bottom and not sideways - as long as it stays "in column" it should be okay.

Once I had everything set to my satisfaction, I made it a point of sailing with full sail heeling the boat over much past the normal 15/20 degrees and everything held and so it has ever since.

cheers

Squeaky
 
Knowing only too well the tension in a Fulmar rig I would avoid the coersion method. There is considerable vertical compression in the mast even above the lowers, the mast wall needs to be inline to carry the compression or buckling can occur, a kink is far worse than a curve. Consider a stack of lego bricks, you can press down quite hard, but move a single block half way up the stack over one lug, press down and the whole lot flies apart.

Cutting out the kink and reinforcing the area with a sleve I would imagine is acceptable and the mast wall is then straight and inline allowing the compression force to be carried.

About 4 years ago (just prior to my ownership) the original Kemp mast was found to have a crack and was replaced with a Zspars. I never sailed with the Kemp but have not found anything to raise issue with over the Zspars. I am unlikely to be visiting the boat for another couple of weeks but if you are interested in further details let me know.

Stuart
 
My mast is a little bit bigger than yours and when I enquired about the cost it was something like 5k transferring the bits over. As for a sleeve, my mast also is a Kemp and Selden confirmed that they had no mast section like mine left and so couldn't sleeve.

The mast wall in my case was 3.5mm thick - more round the track where my damage is.
 
Hobiecat saws their masts in half

Hobiecat saws their masts in half in order to fit inside a shipping container when delivering boas to far off places. They are then put back together with a sleeve in the middle and a few rivets. As strong as a single piece and completely water tight as well.

Many racing boats have masts which were sawn in half at one time or another.
 
michaelchapman said:
Hobiecat saws their masts in half in order to fit inside a shipping container when delivering boas to far off places. They are then put back together with a sleeve in the middle and a few rivets. As strong as a single piece and completely water tight as well.

Many racing boats have masts which were sawn in half at one time or another.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about that!!
 
30boat said:
As a result of my recent fling with a ship I came to the conclusion that I need a
new mast.I went up today to fit a spreader bracket and it didn't go in.The rivet holes didn't align and upon further inspection it became clear that there was a slight indentation where the fitting compressed the mast wall.The track had also been narrowed by about 3mm.The spreader fitting itself had been smashed when it tuched the ship's side.
The deformation isn't huge and I'm pretty sure I could coerce the fitting into place but I would never be able to trust that rig again .II have emailed the news to my insurers and can safely guess they will fight this as much as they can.Is there any tecnhical text on the structural integrity of spars I could use to base my points on?And does anybody have any Idea of the cost of an approximately 12m long mast?
Thanks
vau01.jpg

That's the new fitting lightly held in place by by a partially compressed rivet.
Click to expand...

It does not seem to be a significant damage and I shall be very surpised if the insurance will accept to pay for a new mast.
It is the buckling strength that you should worry about and this small deformation in way of the spreader landing does not seem to be significant. In any case the affected area can be re-inforced locally with a stainless steel doubling plate.The small deformation on the track can be very easily pushed back with soft brass wedges. All this can be done aloft, but not so easily. So I would take the mast down, check it for deformation and trueness thoroughly and without any rigging affecting its behaviour, dye check for any hairline cracks where it matters. Finally it will be prudent to have the mast checked properly by a spar maker before starting chopping it and re- sleeving it. You should insist on a proper inspection and I think the underwiters may be pursuaded to cover at least these costs.
 
30boat said:
It's was made by Kemp Masts and they're no longer trading.I don't think a sleeve would be adequate as the spreaders are 8m or so high up and the area is very highly loaded.I'll try and get a statement from a mast supplier stating that a new one is the way to go.
Click to expand...

You are right to be very cautious. If the mast has taken that much of a bang it cannot be assumed that slapping on a new spreader and tightening all up will make good - in the full sense of the word - ie that makes the rig fit for purpose and insurable again!

I really urge you to work with the insurer here - even if you were to blame for the incident: they will no doubt tell you to get independent assessment but this may mean bringing the mast down and checking it horizontally for any signs of weakenss. You can't really do this in situ so having a rigger clamber up there isn't going to help.

If you patch and move on, any future failure will disqualify your rig under the "equipment maintained fit for purpose" clauses in all insurance, and any subsequent damage - to crew as well etc - could well be left uncovered. Worrying!

Insurance undertakes to restore you to the position you enjoyed ante factum, so replacing damaged goods with like. Yes, the insurer will try to limit the claim, but I cannot see them limiting their outlay radically then insisting you are covered but with impaired insurance cover! They'll bargain - perhaps suggesting you pay a portion as a contributor to the loss. What argument would you have to deny this?

PWG
 
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