New Italian Tax on Yachts

[PowerYachtBlog]

Here you go, if you are around from coming 1st May 2012 please be notified.

So if you visit Italy, or have a boat around the area, I think its wise to remove.

a) euro 5 per le unità con scafo di lunghezza da 10,01 metri a 12 metri;
b) euro 8 per le unità con scafo di lunghezza da 12,01 metri a 14 metri;
c) euro 10 per le unità con scafo di lunghezza da 14,01 a 17 metri;
d) euro 30 per le unità con scafo di lunghezza da 17,01 a24 metri;
e) euro 90 per le unità con scafo di lunghezza da 24,01 a 34 metri;
f) euro 207 per le unità con scafo di lunghezza da 34,01 a 44 metri;
g) euro 372 per le unità con scafo di lunghezza da 44,01 a 54 metri;
h) euro 521 per le unità con scafo di lunghezza da 54,01 a 64 metri;
i) euro 703 per le unità con scafo di lunghezza superiore a 64 metri.

These numbers are per day. A 50% discount is found on sailing yachts.
Discussions are being held to make something for boats on the dry, and older boats to 10 years.

I think this Italian government found a quick way how to destroy an industry which employs over 100,000 direct and over 250,000 indirect, and good ecomony period 2005-08 gave over 5 billion EUROS to the Italian state. In 06 it was 6 billion plus and last, and this year it give over 3 billion.

 

[vas]

my italian is not good enough, you mean that a 12m mobo will have to pay 18euro a day, or 6570euro a year?
Every year?

That's even worse than the stupid tax they increased last year in Greece...

nice, I guess one is learning from the other

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Yup thats a very quick way to destroy the marine industry in Italy. I have just moved my boat back into Italy for the winter and I will probably spend €10-15k on winter maintenance and improvements. Doesn't look like I'll be doing the same next year then. Can anyone tell me why sailing yachts get a 50% discount? I would have thought it should be the other way round given that mobo owners already contribute more to the economy than yotties in terms of spending on fuel, maintenance and general tourist spending

 

[jfm]

Crazy stuff. They seem to forget that boats are mobile...

For a sub 24m boat it is 11k pa. For just over that it is 33k pa. Sheesh. The length measurement the Italians will use is I believe ISO8666, which means you exclude unboltables like pulpits, swim platforms, outboards, rudders etc. But it is not the same as load line length, which is always a smaller number than ISO 8666. In other words a boat built to be 23.99m LLL (as many 80-something footers are) will generally be above 24m ISO 8666, and therefore liable for the €33k not €11k annual charge. (My boat is just under 24m by ISO8666, phew)

Expect marinas in France near the border (Cote D'Azur) to fill up and rise in value, especially for ~23m berths

 

[BartW]

Crazy stuff. ...............
Expect marinas in France near the border (Cote D'Azur) to fill up and rise in value, especially for ~23m berths

that was my first reaction and concern when I read this tread



last spring I have been many times in marina's in Italy,
the only topic of the day was the deep crisis their boating industry was in.

Brokers, Surveyors, Captains, Boat owners, boat yards, chandlers, ...
restaurants in the marina's, ....
all of them suffering and complaining..

when I wanted to buy a paper chart at a chandler of the region, the poor man answered: we are waiting for months for these, but the printer has no money to print them

is this how the Ital gouverment wants to make a change to that?

 

[wakeup]

Crazy stuff. They seem to forget that boats are mobile...

For a sub 24m boat it is 11k pa. For just over that it is 33k pa. Sheesh. The length measurement the Italians will use is I believe ISO8666, which means you exclude unboltables like pulpits, swim platforms, outboards, rudders etc. But it is not the same as load line length, which is always a smaller number than ISO 8666. In other words a boat built to be 23.99m LLL (as many 80-something footers are) will generally be above 24m ISO 8666, and therefore liable for the €33k not €11k annual charge. (My boat is just under 24m by ISO8666, phew)

Expect marinas in France near the border (Cote D'Azur) to fill up and rise in value, especially for ~23m berths

€33k per annum for 24m plus boats! That is not only going to drive the boats away but that will result in local crew or stew being fired. So not only doing the country out of maintenance and berthing fees, local boat crews will lose their jobs not to mention the cash that gets splashed by the owners and charters in the Italian ports! They must be nuts. France is going to get busy as you say since France will be safer option between Italy and Spain whose tax systems are heavily penalizing boat owners.

 

[jfm]

since France will be safer option between Italy and Spain

And let's not forget, France has great cruising grounds. Cote D'Azur, the 2 caps D'Antibes and Ferrat, Porquerolles and the gem of the Med, Corsica. And fab food. So it's not as if people escaping the tax-crazy Italy and Spain will have to endure any hardship.

 

[blueglass]

Can anyone tell me why sailing yachts get a 50% discount?

good question - it was the same when Greece tried this on last year (unsucessfully so far) but I think they see it as a tax on the wealthy and mobo owners are concieved as wealthier than raggies??

 

[Nick_H]

mobo owners are concieved as wealthier than raggies??

Size for size your average mobo is quite a lot more expensive than your average sailing yacht, so i'd have thought their assumption is broadly correct isn't it?

If you just consider the marine industry in isolation, the move is probably counter productive, although I wonder whether it will be quite as counter productive as we may think. I'd guess 90%+ of boat owners in Italian waters are Italian, and many/most wont have the option of moving the boat, either because there aren't any berths left elsewhere, or because the cost/hassle of getting to a new location will eat up any savings. Bigger boats will move for sure (if they can find anywhere else to go), but in a wider context, high profile taxes on the wealthy make the pill easier to swallow for the masses, so the new Italian cabinet will probably use it as PR in pushing through general tax rises/austerity across the board (otherwise known as the "We're all in it together" principle!).

Not saying I like or agree with it, but objectively I don't necessarily see it as madness given Italy's current predicament. The Spanish move seems less well thought out to me, as (I think) a lower proportion of boats are locally owned

Discuss!

 

[jfm]

Agreed. There is a real politik element here. The rich have to be seen to be being taxed on their Ferarris, Sardinia houses and yachts, else people will camp in tents outside important buildings, and things like that

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I'd guess 90%+ of boat owners in Italian waters are Italian, and many/most wont have the option of moving the boat, either because there aren't any berths left elsewhere, or because the cost/hassle of getting to a new location will eat up any savings

Maybe true on the W side of Italy but on the Adriatic side, moving out of Italy would be easy as Slovenia and Croatia are 80nm away or less. Slovenia, even though it has a relatively short coastline, would fill up very quickly as it is very easy for Italians to drive from N Italy into Slovenia. Croatia is less easy to get into by car because of the border crossings but they are joining the EU next year so getting there will be easier. Many Italians spend their holidays cruising Croatia so I can see some owners just saying there's no point in keeping their boats in Italy. Slovenian and Croatian marina owners must be rubbing their hands with glee.
I guess Italian marinas in the northern Adriatic will have to drop their berthing prices to compensate for the boat tax otherwise they'll lose berth holders for sure

 

[DavidJ]

my italian is not good enough, you mean that a 12m mobo will have to pay 18euro a day, or 6570euro a year?
Every year?

That's even worse than the stupid tax they increased last year in Greece...

nice, I guess one is learning from the other

How did you make that calculation? I hope Spain doesn't follow, I couldn't take a hit like that.

 

[jfm]

How did you make that calculation? I hope Spain doesn't follow, I couldn't take a hit like that.

The euro rates quote are daily, so 365x€18=€6570

 

[Searush]

What's the bit about the age of the boat? Trying to extend it to boats up to 10 years old? What age is included now & how do they prove the age of a boat?

OK I'm a long way away from Italy, but at 38 years old would SR be exempt, rather like pre-1972 cars are from licence fees? Can you "prove" your boat is over 10 years old?

 

[Seahope]

And let's not forget, France has great cruising grounds. Cote D'Azur, the 2 caps D'Antibes and Ferrat, Porquerolles and the gem of the Med, Corsica. And fab food. So it's not as if people escaping the tax-crazy Italy and Spain will have to endure any hardship.

Let's hope that the French who already like to tax the rich (a wealth tax exists already in France) don't decide that they can now join in too

 

[blueglass]

What's the bit about the age of the boat? Trying to extend it to boats up to 10 years old? What age is included now & how do they prove the age of a boat?

OK I'm a long way away from Italy, but at 38 years old would SR be exempt, rather like pre-1972 cars are from licence fees? Can you "prove" your boat is over 10 years old?

According to the similar trhread on the liveaboard forum
"The reduction due to the age of the boat has been scrapped; the 50% reduction for sailboats remains"
The final implementation of this tax is still very much in the melting pot.

 

[MapisM]

The euro rates quote are daily, so 365x€18=€6570

Yep, but you took the 18 from virtuvas post, where he mistakenly used 18 instead of 8, so the yearly amount is actually €2920, in this case.

 

[vas]

Yep, but you took the 18 from virtuvas post, where he mistakenly used 18 instead of 8, so the yearly amount is actually €2920, in this case.

that's why I asked in the first place, I said I didn't quite get it

BTW, in Greece they have a staircase approach to taxation, so for the first 8m length you pay A, then for the 8-10 B, 10-12 C, 12-15 D, etc
the price then for a say 13m works out as:

8XA + 2XB + 2XC + 1XD = 2K (more or less dont remember exactly, not being implemented yet) That's an annual tax btw and that's the re-incarnation of the boat/yacht tax following the carnage left behind the 2009 special tax.

The carnage as I understand it which I hope wont be the case in Italy is that every mobo and yacht (over 10m) that was in G for more than so and so days (don't remember I think a couple of months) so basically every craft moored and stored in G, had to pay a one off tax in 2009. To get a figure for 43ft and over 10years old it was around 3300euro. Following some extentions deadline was April of 2010 or so. From that day on, every month the charge has a nice surcharge of 10% PER FCKING MONTH!!!
If you check marinas, stored in the dry are dozens of craft (per marina) that haven't been in the water since 2008. I'm not exaggerating that there must be a couple of thousand 10+m craft on the hard with no tax paid in Athens alone! Fair enough, the problem is that most owners are not willing to pay and want to sell (the ones that want to use them have already paid as it's getting tighter to be allowed in and out of port without this doc). Hence the problems I had finding a 43ft mobo with tax paid (ratio is one to 10 checked and I'm not exagerating). Ppl believe that they can just find someone to bear the charges. Mind you on a 43ft mobo, my mate with the P410 paid 5K before the summer, the charges are now around 12K and by easter they'll be edging 20K
Mind you unless the tax is paid you are doomed, there's no way to freeze that and even destroying the craft (a whole beaurocratic mess in itself) wont stop the charges running.

What worries me is that it seems that one gov is checking what the others are doing and without checking all consequences press on new taxes...

V.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Mind you on a 43ft mobo, my mate with the P410 paid 5K before the summer, the charges are now around 12K and by easter they'll be edging 20K
V.

Are you saying that Greek owners will shortly be paying €20,000 per year for the dubious pleasure of owning a 43ft mobo? Or is that drachmas already? Does Greece have any kind of pleasure boat industry left?

 

[vas]

Are you saying that Greek owners will shortly be paying €20,000 per year for the dubious pleasure of owning a 43ft mobo? Or is that drachmas already? Does Greece have any kind of pleasure boat industry left?

no mike,

you had to pay 3.3K euro in 2009, if you haven't YET paid that, you're liable to 20K by easter time (with the 10% increase per month).
OTOH, if you've paid that as in my case, you just have to wait for whatever stupidity the government comes up with next...
Plan is for a 2K pa for 43ft (or thereabouts) which is reasonable with a twist but I wont explain that now it's slightly offtopic (ahem, as if we're ever on topic for more than a dozen posts )

We (I think, not read/heard the news today...) are still in euro.
Not much industry left (overall) there are a few companies doing grp boats up to 7-8m max for the local market. They are good.
We also have a few companies doing ribs with mixed results from what I hear.

cheers

V