New girl here - Sunseeker Super Hawk 48 or Camargue 46/55

[El Bee]

El Bee thanks for this but it looks to be fairly old advice.

A bit of googling shows you're quite right Mike, apologies for that.

A bit sad that in these days of speed-of-light communications my chums send me something 2 years late

Lee B

 

[lovezoo]

Deleted User - currently foreign former owners of property in Spain who were required to pay capital gains tax when they sold their properties (whilst Spanish owners were not) are able to claim the tax back.

The difference in this situation is of course the Spaniards have also had to pay the mat tax, but if it can be shown to be a breach of EU laws its always possible that they will have to refund it. You may have to wait a long time though to ever see the money...

 

[waterbird]

Thanks

Firstly Mike,

Thank you for that valid input, very well put and factual from an Owner perspective let alone Boating industry perspective. It is all useful info for people like my self and others looking at investing our Hard earned pennies in our dreams. The American importation of Boats seems a little bit more promising, of course Exchange rates £:$:€ a big factor. The actual cost of importation and the wiring conversion costs would in some cases then actually be viable. Especially where Classic boats or desirable craft are concerned.

Seeing as Sunseeker are a UK Poole based Builder ( I don't know if the case is construction wise now days ) the CE Mark is an interesting point on importation. A lot of the State side boats look to be in great shape, some Freshwater use only and in impeccable condition hence my raising the question regarding importation. For someone like myself in this climate making any saving on items like this is paramount and hopefully finding the best one can too.

Thank you again for the Matriculation tax update and breakdown, that information is valuable. Knowing the Country by Country legislation and loop holes is again wonderful information. The Balearics sounds a wonderful place to be, lucky you

Thank you so much.

Tara

 

[PlanB]

Don't forget you'll have to pay VAT if you import a newish boat into the EU that has not previously had VAT paid on it.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

The difference in this situation is of course the Spaniards have also had to pay the mat tax, but if it can be shown to be a breach of EU laws its always possible that they will have to refund it. You may have to wait a long time though to ever see the money...

Thanks but I'm not holding my breath. Probably most of the tax refund would be eaten up in professional fees anyway but I'll certainly keep an eye on the situation

 

[GSL]

US boats are mostly not a viable option for the reasons you mention, but primarily as they run I think on 110 volts over there. So, you have to change all of the electrics or run some sort of an inverter. Not really an option unless it happens to be a 220 volt boat.........

The voltage conversion need not be a big problem, on my 1997 40 foot Sea Ray Sundancer, imported form Florida, I simply put a 220 / 110 volt transformer in the shore power line, and all was good for the next 3 years I used the boat in the UK and in Spain. Total cost about £190.

Graham

 

[waterbird]

Sounds Great

The voltage conversion need not be a big problem, on my 1997 40 foot Sea Ray Sundancer, imported form Florida, I simply put a 220 / 110 volt transformer in the shore power line, and all was good for the next 3 years I used the boat in the UK and in Spain. Total cost about £190.

Graham

Hi Graham,

That is very interesting and by the way what a lovely boat too, a beautiful craft; well done you. By the way what procedure did you use via the import? did you also have to pay VAT on the boat? I suppose with the right exchange rate and price the VAT may not have been too much of a Bummer.

Hope things work out for you to Mike with the whole Tax ordeal, keep us posted. Things are looking up a bit this end I might add or is that tempting fate? . Not counting ones Chickens yet but there is a slim possibility of the dream becoming a reality sooner rather than later so I thank you all again for your fantastic input. This info will not only help us but also others too no doubt.

We have been looking through masses of listings for boats and wow what a mark up some dealers are putting on Boats when you find the same Boat for £30k less elsewhere. If all comes off some major shopping around and Bargain hunting is on the cards, will try to go direct to Owners where poss.

The same applies to most things from sundries to Cars and Houses I suppose. We are even considering a Hawk initially, just to get our Sea legs running again, then move on up.

Not ruling out other Manufacturers too

Thanks again.

Tara

 

[Anamar]

Another new girl here!

Hello, I'm another new girl here! and I start by greeting Tara and her dream, and express my apreciation for all the most useful comments I read from all of you.
Wonderful conversation, and funny to find this thread, since I'm also an artist and a sea lover...

I was actually researching on Caterpillar engines because I'm also in the process of buying a new boat, since I feel confident enough to upgrade form the one I have now, though I'm aiming a bit too high for my experience perhaps, but I'm a fast learner though...
So, I'm also looking for a Sunseeker Cam 47 , or a Ferretti 47 Open.

People say Cat 3208 375Hp engines are bullet proof, and that if it has been well serviced lots of hours is not a problem... may I ask your opinion on this?

And also, if it is not too off topic, what do you think of the Ferreti Open option to the Cam 47?

Thanks in advance, and best wishes to all,

Ana

 

[BartW]

I would love to re-engine one of the fabulous 90's Sunseeker hull's with new Yanmar or Yamaha engines

I asume you mean the Yamaha "hydra" sterndrive,
never had one, but alway's loved these engines / drives.

(we have loads of experice with the pro sound dev. from Yamaha, so know about there mission/quality)

but early this year at boat show in Dusseldorf I heard / have been told that Yamaha won't continue diesel inboards, as the basic engine bloc from Toyota has been changed to a new model, and Yamaha doesn't want or can't or isn't allowed (?) to do the redesign.

I never got this official, but the hydra drive was not at the Duseldorf boatshow, neither at London boat show, ...

 

[GSL]

Hi Graham,

That is very interesting and by the way what a lovely boat too, a beautiful craft; well done you. By the way what procedure did you use via the import? did you also have to pay VAT on the boat? I suppose with the right exchange rate and price the VAT may not have been too much of a Bummer.

Hope things work out for you to Mike with the whole Tax ordeal, keep us posted. Things are looking up a bit this end I might add or is that tempting fate? . Not counting ones Chickens yet but there is a slim possibility of the dream becoming a reality sooner rather than later so I thank you all again for your fantastic input. This info will not only help us but also others too no doubt.

We have been looking through masses of listings for boats and wow what a mark up some dealers are putting on Boats when you find the same Boat for £30k less elsewhere. If all comes off some major shopping around and Bargain hunting is on the cards, will try to go direct to Owners where poss.

The same applies to most things from sundries to Cars and Houses I suppose. We are even considering a Hawk initially, just to get our Sea legs running again, then move on up.

Not ruling out other Manufacturers too

Thanks again.

Tara

Hi Tara

I bought the boat in Florida in December 1997, so the exchange rate was very much in my favour at £1 : US$2.05!!!

I paid VAT when it got to the UK and also had the CE Plating done here, no drama at all.

I recently sold that boat and wanted to replace it with a 2000 - 2002 Sundancer 460 (marketed in Europe as a 515). I looked again long and hard at the US market, and was very prepared to buy over there again, ship it to the UK and go through the CE Plating (it has reduced in price since last time) and also convert the electrics.

However with the exchange rate as it is now, it proved that a better boat could be bought in Spain, at a price that I just could not get near by buying in the US. In fact using the current rate Euro to Dollars, I believe I bought a boat in Spain for the same price than I would have paid in the US, but without having to add VAT, Shipping, CE Plating and Electrics. Also the boat in Spain had a far better range of options fitted than those in the US currently for sale.

I think there is no substitute to doing plenty of research on the Internet and researching every boat of the model you decide on prior to travelling to view. I know that there is not a 460 / 515 on the world market that I did not know about prior to the viewing and purchase I made. There are also so many variations / options applicable to most models, so a list of pros and cons for each boat that crosses your radar is essential. I don't think we ever get the perfect deal, but clarifying the alternatives before viewing and letting your heart take over is very important.

Good luck

Graham

 

[waterbird]

Welcome Ana and Thanks

Hello, I'm another new girl here! and I start by greeting Tara and her dream, and express my apreciation for all the most useful comments I read from all of you.
Wonderful conversation, and funny to find this thread, since I'm also an artist and a sea lover...

Hi Ana ,

Welcome to the Forum, nice to see another Artist and Water lover too thank you also for the lovely well wishes too. As for the Cat engines I have heard the same, only very good things about them. In regards to the Cam 47 wow! still a model on the cards but as mentioned already avoid the Detroit engined model. The Volvo Penta Diesels have a good reputation too. Although I did exchange messages with a guy who reckoned Detroits are a very simple engine to work on should anything go wrong and he personally swore by them.

I had a quick peak via the Net at a couple of the Feretti Opens, they look lovely but go with your Heart at the end of the day, then no regrets.....We hope. It is so difficult isn't it, so many wonderful boats, during tough times we all want the best we can find for our hard earned pennies

Again welcome again, I hope to follow your dream too as it evolves. The people here have been really helpful, honest and have gone out of their way. It means a lot to me to receive such warmth and assistance.

Thank you also Graham for that insight into your experience with importing from the States. Making the most of the exchange rates on such high value items is good when times are right, wow you really capitalised at that time. In the research of late it is proving that Spain, France, Portugal and the Balearics are the places to look at the moment. Especially when in our case, looking at a Mooring in Spain too, gosh they vary dramatically. We don't mind a nice Cruise mind you to move the boat to its new Home .

Thank you again all of you, and best wishes to you Ana.

Tara

 

[Anamar]

In the research of late it is proving that Spain, France, Portugal and the Balearics are the places to look at the moment.

Hi Tara,

I live in Portugal and know the market here. I find that the offered prices for the type of boats we're talking about are higher than in Spain, Italy or France. Everything seems more expensive in Portugal, really incredible... but in most cases only at first sight, you can cut good deals on a one to one basis. Anyway, if you need some local assistance, let me know, I'll be glad to help.

I also realized there are tons of boats being sold from Croatia and alike, but mostly with taxes unpaid. I wonder if it is complicated or worth it?...

Also, thank you Graham for you info, it was most useful to me too.

Best wishes, Ana

Ps - I'm still recovering from the trauma of finding out today how much is the medium consumption/hour of those double Cats though ; ) 80-100L!!!

 

[waterbird]

In todays current Fuel price market ouch

Quote:

Ps - I'm still recovering from the trauma of finding out today how much is the medium consumption/hour of those double Cats though ; ) 80-100L!!![/QUOTE]

Dear Ana,

Thank you so much for your very kind offer of assistance like wise. Please Pm me if you like. It is the current fuel price that is swaying my way of thinking too and only an ever growing price with this in mind. I am sure with the future of Solar power and other techniques ultimately things will change. That does not help us though in the short term with our dream.

A Cam 40+ would be wonderful but a Cruise due to costs would need very careful planning. As you say the cost of the boat is very important, much better to seek one with Mat Tax paid but depending on the price of the Boat it may not work out too much, for example a Boat from the UK Channel islands. On an expensive craft the cost of Tax would be a major blow. Although saying that according to a couple of people previously in this thread the Matriculation Tax is being reassessed. On vessels under 15m in length in Spain this is applicable, so there is hope. VAT is another story on later boats.

Personally I am looking at Boats with Tax paid and hoping in the current climate when in a position, with a bit of bargaining on a direct to owner buy; a good price will be achieved .

To make the boat work also important, especially to us in the long term goal. Lou my very good friend is a Dive instructor. We both intend on achieving our Day Skipper and ultimately our Coastal Skipper qualifications to hopefully achieve the point of being able to Charter occasionally. To also take groups out to introduce them to the beauty of SCUBA an aim too.

Initially though a Boat to Cruise the Med is our plan working our little business via the net at ports to help offset our travel costs.

I am going to open another thread on the Ultimate Med Cruise routes and subsequent experiences as a real passion in the planning, a dream to accomplish . I am sure many here have had amazing experiences cruising the Med and have great stories and advice to share

Thank you again Ana it will be nice to bounce ideas and solutions

Best Wishes

Tara

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I was actually researching on Caterpillar engines because I'm also in the process of buying a new boat, since I feel confident enough to upgrade form the one I have now, though I'm aiming a bit too high for my experience perhaps, but I'm a fast learner though...
So, I'm also looking for a Sunseeker Cam 47 , or a Ferretti 47 Open.

People say Cat 3208 375Hp engines are bullet proof, and that if it has been well serviced lots of hours is not a problem... may I ask your opinion on this?

And also, if it is not too off topic, what do you think of the Ferreti Open option to the Cam 47?

Thanks in advance, and best wishes to all,

Ana

Anamar, the I've had Cat3208 engines in 3 boats now and they have all proved very reliable for me. They do have a good reputation in the lower powered versions (210/375hp) but the high powered 425/442hp versions (which I had) supposedly wear out faster and may need rebuilding earlier. The 3208 is an older style mechanically fuelled engine (rather than electronically fuelled) and is a bit thirsty on fuel and the exhaust is quite dirty so you get sooty deposits on the back of the boat. Overall though I think they're excellent engines but make sure you have them inspected by an engineer before you buy and get an oil analysis done.
I dont know the Ferretti 47 Open well but, for me, Ferretti are much better known for flybridge boats and Sunseeker for open boats so I would favour the Cam 47. Also the Cam 47 is still a good looking boat which still looks modern

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

I know a bit the Ferretti 47 Open and it was at its time when launched in late eighties quite ahead of the competition. I think eighties Ferretti where very ahead in design terms, extended bathing platform for tender stowage, pivoting window in cockpit, and the hard top 38 Altura Roadster, and 40 Altura Rst.... WOW
It featured at the time a spacious stern garage, which I think was the second production boat featuring this behind the 1985 launched Italcraft C51 Classic.
It was one of the pure Ferretti opens built, the other was the 35 and the powerboat hull Fabio Buzzi designed 48 High Performance. The hull is seaworthy, and while will have less speed and more pig handling then a Sunseeker I would accept it to handle rough seas a bit better. Mostly due to weight a deeper fore foot, and better COG.
The early version of this model had an aft looking radar arch, and last version had a forward looking. It was produced from 1987 till 1992 in a handful of versions.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

http://www.yachtsray.com/photos2/359.jpg

Early version

http://esprit-mer.com/aqua/images/128809393676328.jpg

Late Version

http://imagenes.cosasdebarcos.com/b...-altura-71010120091657566768495057484570g.jpg

Nice Blue hull

 

[Anamar]

Thx & MAN 610hp

Thank you Mike, most helpful!

I'm still looking for the best boat option, as Tara is, perhaps...

By the way, I saw that on both brands/models some owners reengine with MAN 610hp... any feedback on this engines?

Best, A

 

[Anamar]

Thx to you also!

I know a bit the Ferretti 47 Open and it was at its time when launched in late eighties quite ahead of the competition. I think eighties Ferretti where very ahead in design terms, extended bathing platform for tender stowage, pivoting window in cockpit, and the hard top 38 Altura Roadster, and 40 Altura Rst.... WOW
It featured at the time a spacious stern garage, which I think was the second production boat featuring this behind the 1985 launched Italcraft C51 Classic.
It was one of the pure Ferretti opens built, the other was the 35 and the powerboat hull Fabio Buzzi designed 48 High Performance. The hull is seaworthy, and while will have less speed and more pig handling then a Sunseeker I would accept it to handle rough seas a bit better. Mostly due to weight a deeper fore foot, and better COG.
The early version of this model had an aft looking radar arch, and last version had a forward looking. It was produced from 1987 till 1992 in a handful of versions.

Hey, PowerYachtBlog! Most most helpful also, thank you so much!
I do love these ones too, though this thread is on Sunseeker... Anyway, will let you all know the final choice.
Best, A