New Genoa - which cloth?

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dedwards

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We are looking at replacing our genoa this season but have been blinded by all the different quotes. Looking at past advice on this forum it all seems to be based on customer service rather than the performance of the sail itself.

My question is: of all the budget(ish) sail lofts, do some have a reputation of providing better sails than others? I assume the intrinsic difference between sails is down to the cloth they use and we have a few samples but to me they are all just white and plasticy.

I suppose what I want to know is: will all the sails perform roughly the same or can I gain an extra knot by paying an extra %15 or so. If thats the case, what features should I be looking for?
 
A friend of mine who works for Hyde says that a lot of cheap cloth is loosely woven and packed out with a filler to make it crispy. The problem with this is that when the sail floggs, or just through use, all the filler breaks down very quickly leaving a baggy pile of poo. More expensive cloth has more tightly woven fabric and less filler.
 
Ask about cruising laminates.

I had a furling genoa and main made out of a Bainbridge made Pentex, with taffeta on both sides. After an Atlantic circuit of 18,000 miles they were still a perfect shape. Admittedly, the genoa had a bit of leach curl.

The cost difference over Dacron was about £120.
 
Another vote for a cruising laminate.

Absoltuely awesome stuff!
it makes a massive difference when your sail has the shape and low stretch to be properly flattened at the second reef when beating in stronger winds!
 
Just realised you were talking specifically about genoas, but the basic advice still holds, a cruising laminate sail will be very low stretch yet still reasonably durable! Just be nice to it when you take it off the furler and flake it nicely instead of just bundling it into a bag.
 
I've got a triradial genoa in cruising laminate with a couple of foam pads in the luff .. absolutely super sail.
 
Talk to your sailmaker and ask him to explain the various options and the effects on performance/longevity versus additional cost. With the size of boat in your profile you may be able to achieve performance and long life from a good quality straight Dacron, larger sails have much higher loads and will stretch out of shape sooner unless higher tech materials are used. There is also the cut to consider, radial or triradial for example and then whether to have a foam luff added or not to improve the shape when reefed.

The problem with just shopping around for quotes is that everyone assumes you are looking for the best price and that the cheapest quote will win the day. What you need to do is determine the best price for the performance that you expect. You may well find that specifying a better cloth or a more complex cut will give much better performance for not a huge amount more.

In our case we have Hydranet Spectra/Dyneema reinforced woven Dacron (mesh of Dyneema woven in warp and weft about every 5mm) and have tri-radial cut in both genoa and mainsail, the genoa also has a foam luff. These sails are superb, made by Crusader in Poole who are one of our local sailmakers, they cost about 25% more I believe from memory than we could have paid in standard Dacron and simpler cut. However we have a 41ft cruiser/racer with a very powerful rig and high loadings and a standard cloth in our case may have lasted over 10 years but be out of shape in a year or two. On previous boats we have bought sails in higher quality cloth to 'cruiser/racer' specs and been well pleased, but the sail loadings were lower and good Dacron sufficed.

There is no one single answer to your question therefore so again my advice would be to talk openly with your sailmaker.
 
Ok chaps- This term cruising laminate covers an awful lot. Can you be more specific over the different brands/types.?I am going through the same procedure as dedwards except that I 'm after a new main.

Thanks Howard.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Ok chaps- This term cruising laminate covers an awful lot. Can you be more specific over the different brands/types.?I am going through the same procedure as dedwards except that I 'm after a new main.


[/ QUOTE ]

That is why you need to talk to a sailmaker! The types available do change and what was in vogue last year may have been improved on this year.

Some laminates have a film sandwiched between outer layers of cloth which protect the plastic film but sometimes mildew can become a problem, getting between the layers and looking unsightly. Some laminates may be ultra stretch resistant but break down suddenly when they do go as opposed to a cloth which may stretch out of shape and cause poor performance (extra weather helm, leeway, poor pointing) but which will not fall apart for may years. Some laminates for sure do not like being creased. Raceboats will treat such sails with the care they deserve but cruisers 'stuffing' sails in bags or folding in the same creases all the time on a boom perhaps will see these sails cracking and breaking down rather sooner than they would like!

Get your sailmaker to really talk you through the options and match these to the added costs versus added performance and expected working life. One thing is for sure and that is good sails make for bigger grins but smaller bank balances!

Anyhow, I'm off for the weekend, got a windlass to rebuild which has wrecked my bank balance for a while..
 
Would highly recomend a chat with Paul or Andy at Crusader Sails in Poole 0800252226, both very good at talking you thorugh all the options and implications.

Have used them a number of times and had no problems so far.

Steve
 
Looking for a new genoa as well. With a roller main, you loose so much drive and pointing to windward that it is even more essential to have a suberb genoa! Mind you the roll up main is the real lazymans approach to sailing - that s now me I think.
 
If you want to stay with Dacron take a good magnifying glass and place a bright light beneath the cloth samples you have. You can count the threads.

How long a sail lasts and how much it stretches are determind by how many threads there are - the more threads and the less epoxy the better.

The first thing that will strike you is that many sailmakers use the same cloth, so they are only differentiated by service and sail features. Then get a sample from Hood, you will be amazed how much better their cloth is in terms of number of threads (and thus how much longer it will last).
 
Interested - in your comments on hydranet. Have thought for some time that it would be a good basis for long distance cruising sails.
 
I second Crusader - it was their knowledge and personal approach which persuaded me to get a new genoa from there last year. (Just as well, because they were the only company who were right about the correct size luff cord for the foil.)

They were very patient at talking me through the various options about cut and cloth.
 
Thanks all for the comments. Didn't find crusader at sibs so don't yet have a quote from them but I did have a quote and sample from Hood who so far have the cheapest quote. I guess i'll have to go back to them and ask more questions. Interested by the comments that laminates arent that much more expensive - I thought they didn't have the durability of dacron, though.
 
>Hood who so far have the cheapest quote.

Wow, when we got a range of quotes for three sails they were 30% more expensive than the next highest quote but they were prepared to negotiate. Seems to me there might be something wrong there.
 
I went through this process last year & had my sails delivered in March this year.I had quotes from the usual suspects & opted for a tri-radial 135% genoa in a low aspect HMD 7.03 cloth from Hyde.I asked about cruising laminate & they advised that for my sort of cruising(coastal & the odd trip to Holland) that it was not worth me paying the extra money.They were also honest about the fact that they had transfered their sailmaking manufacture abroad a few years ago.Some others also make their sails abroad & finish them in this country.They also came to measure my boat on the East Coast which for me was a plus.Have a look at their website but do talk to the sailmakers involved,whichever one you use.
 
Hood are not what they used to be. Thew 'brand' is now made I believe by Kemp in Poole. Also Hood with all their reputation made sails foe new boats which contrary to folk lore were made DOWN to a price. Whoever you chose be very aware of the spec you are getting and it might be worth asking them to confirm a) do they cut the panels in house b) do they do ANYTHING at all in house or are they made in the far east and simply badged.
 
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