new gelcoat vs paint on tired topsides?

contessaman

contessaman

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The topsides of my boat consist of what was once gelcoat, scarred by 30 years of scuffs dings and repairs, all underneath a one pack paint system.
when I bought the boat I couldnt face stripping all that paint off so I DA sanded and applied blakes one pack enamel.



Its looking shabby again already and I am looking to the future and thinking of a more permanent solution.

I guess the classic solution would be to strip all paint, key out, fill and fair the gelcoat and then go for a 2 pack respray or roller and a lot of wet 'n' drying.

Lately, I have impressed myself with some repairs around the cockpit using an angle grinder and polyester flow coat.. got me thinking;

so the big question.. what about getting a mobile gelcoat planing service out to peel all or most of the gelcoat+ paint off the topsides. Repaint the whole lot in flow coat, then get serious with the sandpaper and finally cutting paste.

It would obviously be (very)hard work, and undoubtedly involve spending more money than the value of the boat warrants. But this aside,

Has anybody heard of / done this before? would it work?

I would be interested in all of your views!

thanks
 
contessaman said:
The topsides of my boat consist of what was once gelcoat, scarred by 30 years of scuffs dings and repairs, all underneath a one pack paint system.
when I bought the boat I couldnt face stripping all that paint off so I DA sanded and applied blakes one pack enamel.



Its looking shabby again already and I am looking to the future and thinking of a more permanent solution.

I guess the classic solution would be to strip all paint, key out, fill and fair the gelcoat and then go for a 2 pack respray or roller and a lot of wet 'n' drying.

Lately, I have impressed myself with some repairs around the cockpit using an angle grinder and polyester flow coat.. got me thinking;

so the big question.. what about getting a mobile gelcoat planing service out to peel all or most of the gelcoat+ paint off the topsides. Repaint the whole lot in flow coat, then get serious with the sandpaper and finally cutting paste.

It would obviously be (very)hard work, and undoubtedly involve spending more money than the value of the boat warrants. But this aside,

Has anybody heard of / done this before? would it work?

I would be interested in all of your views!

thanks
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A Swedish couple at Preveza Marine in Greece re-gelcoated the topsides of their 42 ft yacht last season. It took about a month, but of course without breaks for bad weather. At the same time they repainted the cockpit and some of the topsides. The job looked excellent when finished. They ground the old gelcoat out themselves. They told me that the gelcoating was easy, in fact far easier than painting because any mistakes, runs, etc. were easily ground back within a few hours, whereas with paint they had to wait some time for it to harden.

Using rollers the finish was surprisingly good and wet-and-dry and polishing activities didn't take them long.
 
A few people are making a business out of re-gelcoating and I have seen some first class results. That would be the way to go in my opinion.
I have Awlgrip, it is rather soft very expensive and, I would not recommend it unless you have the ability to apply it yourself. The typical costs of having it sprayed are dreadful.
 
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Re-gelcoating

I would always go for Awlgrip Polyester Urethane 2 pack - very good finish achievable and very hard paint.

However if the origonal gelcoat has not delaminated from the structure then you must be crazy to peel it off - what for ? Going this way is 5 times the work, and remember that applying gelcoat outside of the mould is never as good as a chemical "tack-on" bond which is only achievable in the mould. Therefore I would be worried about the new gelcoat skin falling off - all depends on prep.

If the hull is badly dinked then keep primering with high build after the filling (only use epoxy) and you´ll be finished in no time !
 
I am facing the same task on my 45 year old topsides. They have been painted before and judging from how tough it is compared to the touching up I have done with toplac I assume it is 2pack and when I can afford to do it and have the time it will be a 2pack hand painted job. Also 2pack on the mast.
If that is of any use....and good luck with it.

Also i ought to add I have had the boat for 7 years and she was ashore for 5 so the topsides where painted about 15years ago.
 
The most cost effective and easiest way is to prepare it really well and use International Toplac. Total cost on a 26 ft boat less than £100. Lasts at least 5 years, easy to touch up and when it starts to fade can be refreshed very easily. In my view expensive recoating is wasted on a small low value boat. Once it is on the water it is difficult to tell the finish from more expensive finishes and there are better things to spend money and effort on!
 
narcer said:
IHowever if the origonal gelcoat has not delaminated from the structure then you must be crazy to peel it off - what for ? Going this way is 5 times the work, and remember that applying gelcoat outside of the mould is never as good as a chemical "tack-on" bond which is only achievable in the mould. Therefore I would be worried about the new gelcoat skin falling off - all depends on prep.
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oh there is no delamination or anything like that, it just looks like s*?t!
the hull actually came out well in the survey with low moisture etc. There wasnt much antifoul on the bottom so I scraped that off and as she'd been ashore for 18 months and was very dry I stuck a few coats of gelprotect SFE epoxy on the bottom.

Im pretty sure my OOD was one of the first yachts ever to be injection moulded and jeremy rogers used isophalic resin which I believe was also rare in 1979. Its all good quality stuff.

I just want her to look shiny new again. the only other problem is due to the lightweight construction the hull is very thin with ribs like an aircraft. Along with every other OOD 34 I have ever seen the hull has gone a bit 'hungry dog' where the ribs are and somebody told me a high gloss 2 pack spray would make that look worse. As the undulations are a matter of millimeters I harboured a thought that re gelcoating would take them out.

I hear what youre saying about adhesion though, It certainly will lack that chemical bond. I hadnt really thought of that. But then I suppose the same goes for any repairs to the hull in fibreglass? I have several, most of which are structural and these seem ok? (I certainly hope they wont fall off!):eek:

come the spring everbody else seems to be polishing their gleaming white hulls with some product or the other, whereas mine looks awful. the one pack paint is so soft even my fenders with fendersocks have chafed it away.

maybe I just need a new(er) boat!
 
heres a picture 3 years ago when I had just painted the topsides with blakes enamel. it didn't look too bad, I did my best!

3 years on the black has faded to matt where the sun hits it, the white has yellowed, and considering I have not impacted anything its full of scratches and abrasions from the slightest of things. I could probably scratch it with my fingernail.

one can see the ribs of the hull quite badly in this picture too.
 
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I'm currently doing this on Avocet. Her gelcoat was actually falling-off (still not sure why!), so I didn't have much choice. Have you considered replacing the gelcoat with a mixture of epoxy and microballoons? That's what I'm doing - ably coached from half way round the world by the forum's resident composites expert, Oldsaltoz! I've been at it for 4 years now (on and off) and hope to have it done this summer. (From that, you can probably gather that it's not an especially easy or quick job)! That said, it's only taken that long because the boat is outdoors and I've rather a lot ofother commitments on.

To get rid of the old gelcoat, I used a router with a 1.25" bit in it. I found that was as big as I could go without the curvature of the hull being a problem. It takes it off very quickly and neatly - and, of course, you can control the depth of the cut very accurately. The only trouble is the mismatch between a flat cutter and a curved hull, but I'm in much the same position as you - the boat isn't worth much and I'm too much of a tightwad to hire a gel peeler. It's also complicated by the fact that Avocet has a moulded cavetta line down each side.

Once the gel is off, I then mix up a batch of epoxy and microballoons and use the back of an old saw blade to fill the "trench" that I've just machined. Doing it this way means that I still have the gelcoat above and below the line (or epoxy if it isn't the first line) to use as a guide - so I don't loose the curve of the hull. Epoxy has the huge advantage of sticking like the proverbial to fibreglass and the microballoons make it relatively easy to sand. When I'm finished, I'll whack on a few coats of high-build epoxy primer and then probably come on here and ask the forumites what paint to use!

PM me with an e-mail address if you're interested and I'll send you some photos. Cost about £350 in epoxy and microballoons to do a 27 footer.
 
Avocet said:
I'm currently doing this on Avocet. Her gelcoat was actually falling-off (still not sure why!), so I didn't have much choice. Have you considered replacing the gelcoat with a mixture of epoxy and microballoons? That's what I'm doing - ably coached from half way round the world by the forum's resident composites expert, Oldsaltoz! I've been at it for 4 years now (on and off) and hope to have it done this summer. (From that, you can probably gather that it's not an especially easy or quick job)! That said, it's only taken that long because the boat is outdoors and I've rather a lot ofother commitments on.

To get rid of the old gelcoat, I used a router with a 1.25" bit in it. I found that was as big as I could go without the curvature of the hull being a problem. It takes it off very quickly and neatly - and, of course, you can control the depth of the cut very accurately. The only trouble is the mismatch between a flat cutter and a curved hull, but I'm in much the same position as you - the boat isn't worth much and I'm too much of a tightwad to hire a gel peeler. It's also complicated by the fact that Avocet has a moulded cavetta line down each side.

Once the gel is off, I then mix up a batch of epoxy and microballoons and use the back of an old saw blade to fill the "trench" that I've just machined. Doing it this way means that I still have the gelcoat above and below the line (or epoxy if it isn't the first line) to use as a guide - so I don't loose the curve of the hull. Epoxy has the huge advantage of sticking like the proverbial to fibreglass and the microballoons make it relatively easy to sand. When I'm finished, I'll whack on a few coats of high-build epoxy primer and then probably come on here and ask the forumites what paint to use!

PM me with an e-mail address if you're interested and I'll send you some photos. Cost about £350 in epoxy and microballoons to do a 27 footer.
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then you still have to do a paint job as well :eek:
 
sailorman said:
This was @ about 8 yrs on from spray job

http://www.ybw.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3747&stc=1&d=1266692875
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That looks stunning, I would be delighted if I could come near to that. Have a close look at the piccy of mine though those ribs would ruin the mirror finish that you have. I wonder if a combination of epoxy fairing and some canny sanding prior to spraying could prevent or at least reduce the problem. Maybe its something I'll have to live with with a lightweight racer.
 
contessaman said:
That looks stunning, I would be delighted if I could come near to that. Have a close look at the piccy of mine though those ribs would ruin the mirror finish that you have. I wonder if a combination of epoxy fairing and some canny sanding prior to spraying could prevent or at least reduce the problem. Maybe its something I'll have to live with with a lightweight racer.
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its Awlgrip poly,straight off of the spray gun no buffing req. no other pain system comes any where near Awlgrip.
 
Just an idea. Find an automotive spray painter, hire the kit, you do the leg work on the sanding, he sprays, cash in hand job. The skill is in the spraying and any re sanding and further coating.

I am aware of a father and son who did this, the son was a skilled automotive spray painter. The paint was some 2 pack automotive paint which they claimed was just as good as any so called marine paint at a fraction of the cost. The finish was stunning. A few coats and rub downs in between.
 
contessaman said:
That looks stunning, I would be delighted if I could come near to that. Have a close look at the piccy of mine though those ribs would ruin the mirror finish that you have. I wonder if a combination of epoxy fairing and some canny sanding prior to spraying could prevent or at least reduce the problem. Maybe its something I'll have to live with with a lightweight racer.
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You can make it any shape you like with epoxy fairing (although it's also very easy to make it any shape you DON'T like too)! Presumably, if it's so lightly built, it will be a slightly different shape in and out of the water and with / without the rig tensioned? If so, I guess you might end p just having to live with the imperfections.
 
contessaman said:
heres a picture 3 years ago when I had just painted the topsides with blakes enamel. it didn't look too bad, I did my best!

3 years on the black has faded to matt where the sun hits it, the white has yellowed, and considering I have not impacted anything its full of scratches and abrasions from the slightest of things. I could probably scratch it with my fingernail.

one can see the ribs of the hull quite badly in this picture too.
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It is always going to be a struggle to get a "showroom" finish, particularly using black and white on a shape that is not fair. Toplac does not fade or scuff like the enamel you have used. My hull is Dark Blue and White. The current blue coat has done 6 years and is just fading so that last years touch ups show. Will flat it down and just one coat that takes about two hours will get it back like new. The substrate is Cascover sheathed ply with lots of imperfections but they do not show when on the water.

You would probably do better with a lighter colour and all the same colour. The contrast of your white and black and uneven line draw the eye into any imperfections. All over grey or mid blue would look far better and hide the lumps and bumps as well as being less susceptible to fading and staining.

I think if it were my boat I would aim to have a colour scheme that drew the eye away from the imperfections. My choice of main colour would be light blue or grey with a white stripe say 100mm deep under the toerail and following the sheer. Then a strong boot top in a contrasting colour just above the waterline. This would reduce the impact of the topsides and draw the eye to the horizontal lines. The white stripe would blur the transition to the deck and coachroof. These colours not only reduce the visual impact but also have better resistance to staining and fading.

One of the advantages of using a low cost finish like Toplac is that it is easy and cheap to change if you don't like it!

Hope this helps and good luck!
 
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sjclewes said:
hi all heres some pictures on photobucket of my boat being regelcoated http://s929.photobucket.com/albums/ad138/simonjclewes/?action=view&current=06112008196.jpg
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Awesome!:) I didnt know they could spray it on, thought it would be too thick.

Was that all done outdoors in the UK?

Who did it for you and if you don't mind me asking what did it cost? Is that a southerly 105? must be a similar length/cost to mine.

Finally, what did they do to the old gelcoat proir to application? remove all or some of it? I wouldnt want to add too much weight..

cheers!
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
Just an idea. Find an automotive spray painter, hire the kit, you do the leg work on the sanding, he sprays, cash in hand job. The skill is in the spraying and any re sanding and further coating.

I am aware of a father and son who did this, the son was a skilled automotive spray painter. The paint was some 2 pack automotive paint which they claimed was just as good as any so called marine paint at a fraction of the cost. The finish was stunning. A few coats and rub downs in between.
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Sorry but have to disagree with this because it´s pretty obvious most people here don´t know what they´re getting into with a topside job. Firstly letting one guy do all the prep, sanding and another guy to spray on will lead to a disaster. The skill is actually in the "whole" job - there´s more skill in the prep/ sanding than the spray application.

Secondly, never spray acryllic car paint on a boat if you want it to last more than 3 years. It has no resistance to salt water enivironment. I know this because I sprayed a 46 ft Riva in metallic bronze on the owners wishes - fantastic for 2 yrs then all needs re-spraying.

Look at Sailorman´s UFO finish - an example of doing the job right from the start with Awlgrip. But you´ll pay about 10K for this.
 
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