New engine, is it worth it?

[colhel]

Our boat is now 34 years old with the original tamd41a. The engine is showing it's age but keeps going with ongoing maintenance and mid season tinkering. A friend of mine is re engining a 1970s Sonny Levi which should give him (less) trouble free boating, better economy and faster cruise for a good few years.
If we were to upgrade our boat we'd still be looking at stuff with machinery around 20 years old or more. Just thinking of the merits of doing the same in a 1989 Nimbus. Cost wise I guess you're looking at 25-30k for a boat that's worth, atm, 35-40k but of a style and layout no longer produced.

 

[madabouttheboat]

Financially, no. But there is more to boating than good financial decisions otherwise no one would buy a boat in the first place. If the boat is perfect for you, you want to keep it for the foreseeable future, and the money it would cost to re engine wouldn't put you in a better place by selling current boat and buying a different one, then go ahead.

 

[colhel]

Yes ^^ I think if this question was asked 5+ years ago the answer would be "you're mad". But now I wonder if machinery cost is now a lower proportion of overall cost of boat ownership

 

[Sticky Fingers]

What engine do you have? Might it be more cost effective to have the current engine and gearbox removed and overhauled; assuming spares etc are readily available then this might be much easier than repowering.

 

[colhel]

What engine do you have? Might it be more cost effective to have the current engine and gearbox removed and overhauled; assuming spares etc are readily available then this might be much easier than repowering.

More of a theoretical question for now, but some tamd41a engine and gearbox spares aren't available.
Reading your thread on you're possibly returning to boat ownership, how much of a premium is a boat with relatively new engines compared to the age of boat? When you look at boats from,say, 25 years ago, the systems, furniture and volume (mooring fees) have increased making the engines having less percentage value compared to the rest of the boat. Maybe....
On a simple set up like ours ie single engine shaft drive, the mooring fees, maintenance and repairs/improvements become more significant.

 

[Forty_Two]

Our GB42CL was built in 1969, we bought her in 1987 with the original Lehman engines. They were reliable, just the normal maintenance. Did need a head off one for valve work, head skimming etc.

In 2000 we decided to ship her to the SoF & decided to re-engine as they were a bit smoky & we wanted guaranteed lack of issues for a few years.

We installed Perkins Sabre M135's with new Velvet Drive gearboxes. Gave us the opportunity to paint the engine room, have the four original tanks out, blasted clean & epoxy coated. All new fuel piping & much other stuff.

Here I am 23 years later & apart from regular servicing (which I do myself) I have had two hoses that needed replacing (one was this year) & one raw water pump needed new seals last year.

For me it was a great decision & has enabled trouble free boating in SoF. It obviously helps that they are uncomlicated engines of course. I still consider my engines new

The only proviso is that to get the value you need to keep the boat for a number of years. I understand entirely about the style/layout issue.

I'm the sort who searches out what i like & keep it. I'm lucky, I know what I like. Boat 36 years, car 25 years, Late Wife 46 years

 

[Sticky Fingers]

More of a theoretical question for now, but some tamd41a engine and gearbox spares aren't available.
Reading your thread on you're possibly returning to boat ownership, how much of a premium is a boat with relatively new engines compared to the age of boat? When you look at boats from,say, 25 years ago, the systems, furniture and volume (mooring fees) have increased making the engines having less percentage value compared to the rest of the boat. Maybe....
On a simple set up like ours ie single engine shaft drive, the mooring fees, maintenance and repairs/improvements become more significant.

Well. Piece of string really, but to use that 1996 Sq50 as an example. There were two on the market at about the 140-150k mark, they had TAMD122P motors. A 2013 Sq50 with D11s is more like £600k. So 4x, obviously a lot has improved as well as the engines, but the boat is basically the same make, size, type and layout. Reengining either the older boat or the newer one would likely cost very broadly the same, so your suggestion that the relative costs are lower in a newer boat is right. Whether it would be worth the cost in either scenario is debatable I suppose.

 

[BruceK]

No, in a few years you will have the same issues again. Putting in a new engine probably means new gear box and electronics etc etc.

You are in the rather delightful postion that you could completely overhaul and rebuild your engine realatively cheapy. For example:

Any one cylinder

Cylinder Liner Kit for Volvo Penta D31A, D41A Models, 876099

or complete rebuild

OVERHAUL KIT for VOLVO PENTA AQAD41A AQD41A TAMD41A TMD41A RO: 876972 876866

 

[SC35]

Eventually, parts will run out and you end up relying on specialist machine shops to create things.
This is similar to running a Steam Engine.
But re-powering with something like a VP D4 has it's own issues.

Yes, it is less smoky, smoother, quieter, the controls are easy to use.
Fuel consumption is better.

But there are several electronic boxes (e.g. the PCU) which can fail, costing four figure numbers if it does happen.
Coolers on a D4 also need cleaning every now and again, which is not cheap.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

@colhel you might want to have a chat to Seapower, they are specialists in marine repowers using Cummins engines, will be able to give you an idea of costs and complexity of your project.
Cummins engine repower

The smaller Cummins lump might suit.

 

[henryf]

If you’re keeping the boat for maybe 10 years and using it in anger then I would argue the new engines will require less repair expense and the associated downtime / hassle.

With a rebuild there will still be parts unchanged which could give problems. A new engine is also likely to be cleaner running and possible more economic.

How many £5-10k jobs would you swerve over 10 years by fitting new ?

 

[Greg2]

I am surprised to hear that it might be worth changing a TAMD41, even if it is an an earlier ‘a’ version. Nice simple motors that I would have thought would go on for a very long time. I certainly wouldn’t want a new VP ‘D’ series engine in its place, particularly in a single installation, and if something did need doing I would probably give a rebuild serious consideration. I note henryf’s comments but perhaps the parts that aren’t replaced are those that are less likely to cause a problem?
.

 

[Montemar]

Getting a full overhaul will give you your full 200 hp back and peace of mind. Why pay more than you have to?

 

[Plum]

Our boat is now 34 years old with the original tamd41a. The engine is showing it's age but keeps going with ongoing maintenance and mid season tinkering. A friend of mine is re engining a 1970s Sonny Levi which should give him (less) trouble free boating, better economy and faster cruise for a good few years.
If we were to upgrade our boat we'd still be looking at stuff with machinery around 20 years old or more. Just thinking of the merits of doing the same in a 1989 Nimbus. Cost wise I guess you're looking at 25-30k for a boat that's worth, atm, 35-40k but of a style and layout no longer produced.

How many hours has it done? Is it burning oil? How much blowback are you getting? It would be interesting to know why you regard such a fundamentally good engine is showing its age.

 

[ChromeDome]

I'm afraid my boring comment is to do a business case.

Know your budget.

State your requirements (must/nice), add weights, score the solutions/offers and select your best compromise.
Some requirements will be mandatory and as such stop/go points for some proposals.

 

[Momac]

How many hours has it done? Is it burning oil? How much blowback are you getting? It would be interesting to know why you regard such a fundamentally good engine is showing its age.

My thoughts also
Maybe it would benefit from some expert attention .

 

[Ferris]

Your friends Levi started life with old rubbish engines which is why it needs repowering. Your boat is not in that space. Do you have the MS4 gearbox? I would suggest that is the only parts critical weak point in your setup. Is any other part NLA through keypart/VP?

I would suggest that many boat owners would rather a ‘41 to their current, more out of date, setup. Nice mechanical engine that can be fixed by anyone with a socket set also. If you were committing to the boat long term I’d suggest doubling down and procuring a spare engine / gearbox to drop in should the need arise.

 

[colhel]

This is more a theoretical question as presently after the checks we're a turn key boat. Yes definitely an overhaul now it's reached so certain age would have a benefit.
I'm thinking more of a new engine as part of an overall boat update. Seeing the price of new stuff at the boatshow, even relatively simple, but nicely finished day boats are a 100k plus to get beds, heads and a fridge you're talking at least double. I think these days it's far more worth updating rather than changing boats.

 

[Portofino]

Avoid a cam belted ex car engine , go for a Vetus or Perkins gear given ( valve gear ) diesel .
Given a choice avoid a modern ECU infested early parts redundancy diesel like the todays VP D series .

 

[Momac]

I think these days it's far more worth updating rather than changing boats.

I agree with that but would look to restore the existing robust and simple engine rather than fit a newer type of engine.

A thorough overhaul (or rebuild if that's really what is needed) should easily last another 25 years.
First step would be to really understand whet the faults are with the existing engine.