New Engine for a Four Tonner

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Whammeller

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I'm slowly restoring a classic Four Tonner (similar to a Deben 4T, though it's not one, but with little history before about 2009).

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Strip out is complete and I'm now about to start work on repairs to the backbone - which means I need to think about the engine, so as to get the floors and beds right.

I removed a monster (and very seized) of a Yanmar YSB8, which had reduced footroom in the cockpit to washbasin size. I'm now looking for something in the 10-15hp range, as compact as possible as space is limited.

The obvious solution would seem to be a Yanmar 1GM10 but I have heard very mixed reports about them (mainly exhaust issues and high price of spares); I'm also a little concerned about the vibration induced by a single cylinder engine in an old wooden boat.

So what does anybody think about any of the following ?

- Yanmar 1GM10
- Beta 10 or 14
- Marine Power Solutions 210 or 214
- Lombardini 502
- Nanni 2.10
- Vetus M2.02
- Thornycroft T10 or T15
- Hatz 1B40V or 1B50V
- Vire 7 or 12
- Dolphin 12

I include the last two because they are very compact and I have no particular concern about two-stroke fuel in the boat - sensibly handled.

Many thanks.

Nick
 
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Nothing wrong with a 1GM once you know its weaknesses as they can all be dealt with. big advantage is its size and lightweight, plus if buying new lower cost. although the engine moves around a lot it has soft mounts so little of this is transferred to the boat's structure. You may well have a stuart Turner stern tube which has a bearing at both ends so will need a flexible coupling whichever diesel you fit (don't bother with petrol). The setup I have in a wooden boat a bit bigger and heavier than yours is a Nanni 14 with a bullflex coupling and a modified stuffing box , replacing the actual box with a Volvo type seal and the white bearing with a piece of cutless. The last engine was a 1GM with the same setup and worked fine for 20 years.

The Nanni is virtually the same size as the Yanmar (length and width) but bulkier at the aft end with the extra cylinder. Heavier but quieter and smoother plus of course freshwater cooled.

Any of the choices will be a lot of money new - more than the boat is new and used engines of this size are not easy to find in usable condition. You will also need to replace the prop, controls and exhaust plus modify the beds because newer engines have mounts closer together.
 
If you go for a Beta diesel, they will make engine mounts to suit your engine beds, at a small extra cost, their service is excellent. As Tranona has said you will almost certainly have to replace lots of ancillaries, but with a modern Beta you can fit a calorifier for hot water!
Look on ebay or other sites.
 
Many thanks for all the helpful and interested replies.

She's a 4 Tonner with no history before about 2007. Sold as a Deben 4T, a detailed discussion with George Whisstock (son of the D4Ts' builder and very helpful), confirmed that she wasn't one - though she might be another WM Blake design as there are a lot of similarities. She's pitch pine on oak frames with an elm transom and garboards, copper fastened - which probably puts her at late 1930s or just post WW2. She was sold with a bermudan cutter rig on a deck mounted alloy mast but shows signs of having been gaff cutter rigged in the past; I suspect that she was re-rigged in the late 1960s/early 1970s. She also shows signs of having had a Stuart Turner (or similar) engine but the owner before last bought her engineless and installed the YSB8 after his outboard was stolen. At some stage, someone did a reasonable job of glass/epoxy/ply sheathing her deck - but not the coachroof, which has some rot issues under the corners of the painted canvas !
Condition-wise, the timber of the hull is in pretty good nick but needs re-caulking and some of the hood ends need work. One or two frames need replacing or sistering, the stem needs some repair and the stern tube shaft log needs replacing. I also intend to fit knees to beef up the deck beams in way of the tabernacle and samson post. Finally, I'll give her wooden spars and a gaff cutter rig - using the D4T plans as inspiration. It's probably going to take me another 18 months or so.

Here's a few pics to give a feel for where I was a couple of weeks ago:

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She was formerly known as 'Susan' and was South Coast and then Medway based. If anybody knows anything about her past, I would be very interested !

Nick
 
Although very light the Vire can get quite bad mannered if it has had a hard life. and parts are not cheap. The Dolphin (the one I am familiar with anyway) is also very compact but it is direct drive. To reverse you need to stop it and start it again backwards. To achieve this smoothly the switchgear needs to be in good nick.

Used small diesels do show up from time to time, a good thing to try is to ask local agents since they are the ones who know who is re-engining what and when. I'd recommend looking around for a Beta and while you are waiting for one to turn up put an outboard bracket on the back...
 
Slightly off topic, but are you going to repaint the hull, or, after the work taking it back to 'wood', varnish her and show the wood off?
Secondly, I'm seriously envious of you having her undercover. As I'm working on mine, I resemble an extra from a movie about Shackleton.
 
jamie N said:
Slightly off topic, but are you going to repaint the hull, or, after the work taking it back to 'wood', varnish her and show the wood off?
Secondly, I'm seriously envious of you having her undercover. As I'm working on mine, I resemble an extra from a movie about Shackleton.
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I'm taking her back to bare wood solely to identify any nasties needing work; she'll be painted again once I'm done. If I were working outside down here (stuck out into the Atlantic in West Pembrokeshire), I would be permanently in wetproofs !
 
wombat88 said:
Although very light the Vire can get quite bad mannered if it has had a hard life. and parts are not cheap. The Dolphin (the one I am familiar with anyway) is also very compact but it is direct drive. To reverse you need to stop it and start it again backwards. To achieve this smoothly the switchgear needs to be in good nick.

Used small diesels do show up from time to time, a good thing to try is to ask local agents since they are the ones who know who is re-engining what and when. I'd recommend looking around for a Beta and while you are waiting for one to turn up put an outboard bracket on the back...
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If I decide to go down the Vire route, I'll get a reconditioned one from Nick the Engineer.

I've heard good reports of Dolphins, but finding one (Dolphin will only recon existing units that the customer supplies) is tricky. Nick will supply without an existing or exchange unit - at a price premium. Vire have the advantage of having been in production until the early 2000s, while Dolphin ceased production decades earlier.
 
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A couple of pics of the current state of play. This one looks promising:

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but I still have to do the other half of the topsides:

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Tedious work with heat gun and scraper - and it'll get more fun below the waterline, where I can't use the heat gun on antifoul !
 
I was chatting to a guy last month, who'd just bought a 'dustless-blaster', to give it the generic name. His machine was extremely controllable, or soft in operation, and perhaps would turn the onerous job that you have with the anti-foul, into something a bit easier.
Unfortunately, I can't remember any 'real' details of it, but would urge you to spend a bit of a tea break in researching this?
"Look into my eyes; think varnish, think varnish" :)

https://youtu.be/g-7NQKzvoVU
 
jamie N said:
I was chatting to a guy last month, who'd just bought a 'dustless-blaster', to give it the generic name. His machine was extremely controllable, or soft in operation, and perhaps would turn the onerous job that you have with the anti-foul, into something a bit easier.
Unfortunately, I can't remember any 'real' details of it, but would urge you to spend a bit of a tea break in researching this?
"Look into my eyes; think varnish, think varnish" :)

https://youtu.be/g-7NQKzvoVU
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He must be a wealthy man ! My tea break research time identified that those sort of blasters cost ££££s ... they don't seem to be available for hire, either (or not in deepest, darkest West Wales). Ah well, scraping and sanding in a SOCO suit and mask here I come !
 
Whammeller said:
He must be a wealthy man ! My tea break research time identified that those sort of blasters cost ££££s ... they don't seem to be available for hire, either (or not in deepest, darkest West Wales). Ah well, scraping and sanding in a SOCO suit and mask here I come !
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Not a DIY bit of kit, but there are contractors who specialise in doing the job for you. Very common here on the south coast and not particularly expensive. I had the whole of a 26' wood boat done for about £800.
 
Tranona said:
Not a DIY bit of kit, but there are contractors who specialise in doing the job for you. Very common here on the south coast and not particularly expensive. I had the whole of a 26' wood boat done for about £800.
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Sadly, not so common here on the edge of the Atlantic ! I'll just hush my whingeing and get on with it, methinks ....
 
Depends on your usage - i.e. Might you need to do long trips on engine and will the boat be near mains or not but one cool option (no more anachronistic than a diesel ) would be a cruising Torqueedo pod. Discreet and quiet and a good range with a couple of 12 v batteries, and no fuel smells or maintenance
 
I would lay money on her being a Johnson & Jago built boat. As for engines, I would not consider a vire at any price, lots of boats in our club have had them & all were unreliable. The Dolphin on the other hand is extremely reliable, smooth & powerful. If going petrol its the only sensible option. Personally i would go for a Beta 10 anything more will be overkill.
 
Keith 66 said:
I would lay money on her being a Johnson & Jago built boat. As for engines, I would not consider a vire at any price, lots of boats in our club have had them & all were unreliable. The Dolphin on the other hand is extremely reliable, smooth & powerful. If going petrol its the only sensible option. Personally i would go for a Beta 10 anything more will be overkill.
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That was my first thought. She is uncannily similar to my old Johnson & Jago 2.5 tonner, 1937 build, although she was only 18 ft o/a.
 
RupertW said:
Depends on your usage - i.e. Might you need to do long trips on engine and will the boat be near mains or not but one cool option (no more anachronistic than a diesel ) would be a cruising Torqueedo pod. Discreet and quiet and a good range with a couple of 12 v batteries, and no fuel smells or maintenance
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I'll be keeping her on a swinging mooring, so I'm afraid that's not practical for me.
 
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