New copper fastenings

[nordic]

Anybody replaced roved copper nails in a clinker boat? Some need replacing as the heads (points?) have gone green, showing green streaks of water from behind the frame where they are fastened and presumably allowing movement of the planks allowing water in - which happens to varying degrees when making way, but not when moored when I presume the planks take up again, until the next time movement is caused.

Have received advice on how to renew, but not sure if it is good. They told me to drill them out and replace using the correct roving tool. A previous posting on reclenching said to grind off the roves and drift the nail out. However the exterior of the mahogany planks has been plugged where the nails are so this could cause damage when the nails are driven out?

Also, should I try to clean out between the planks before re-nailing? If so how - pressure washer, or mechanical method? Once again caulking was advised, but I understood none was needed with clinker construction and could in fact damage frames if done too enthusiastically?

Any advice would be gratefully received, including how to size the nails and where to get replacements and the necessary tool.

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[tillergirl]

It was me who said about grinding off the riveted part of the nail to release the nail. If the heads are filled, the filling has got to come out. When was she built. Chances are that it's putty and will chip out quite easily. I have an old fashioned drill bit - one of those that countersinks as well - that has a sharp point that I tap into the centre of the filler and chip it out carefully. There is always a need to be careful tapping out the nail as the wood has probably swollen since the nail went in and reduced the size of the (filled) hole for the head. So two people come in handy - unless she's a dinghy and you can see both sides.

Generally it's not too bad a job if you take your time. However, a wouldn't been in too much of a rush just because the copper has gone green - it does that if it gets salt water on it and depending upon the degree it doesn't mean the fastening's gone. In contrast if she's making eater under way and she has fully taken up since launching, this is clearly a sign of a vessel that's working. Whereabouts is this. If it is in way of the mast, is the standing rigging set up bar taut? It is possible to overdo that on a wooden boat.

My advice is don't caulk. Clinker boats were not designed to be caulked and it would in my view put extra pressure where none is needed. Yes clean out between the lands of the planks. I used a mechanical method - I was able to get a filler knife blade in the gap. Again be careful or you can take off bits of the timber.

As to tools, it is possible to use a diy kit. hammer to drive the nail, slip on the rove and drive it down the exposed nail on the inside until it is hard against the inside edge of the plank, snippers to cut off excess part of the nail leaving enough of the nail to rivet over - need to get this right, cut off too much and you ain't got enough to rivet securely - leave too much and the copper nail could bend somewhere between the head and the rove which will affect the tighness and make it's own clearnace in the wood. Just right and it's perfect. How much I hear you say - Mirelle might help here - I would say an eigth of an inch. The riveting is done with the Yorkshire Ripper's favourite - the ball pein hammer - that's the hammer that has the round knob on the back of the head as opposed to a claw or the pointy thing of a chipping hammer.
You need a second peson on the outside as you rivet holding something against the head of the nail to stop it reversing out as you rivet. Last time I did this I borrowed a very large hammer (two hands to lift it) with a pointed end at the back of the head which was exactly the size of the copper nail head.

Driving the rove on - that requires a tool - I borrowed a very large punch which has a flat point (if you know what I mean) with a centre drilled hole into which the excess of the nail goes so that the rove can be driven down. Davey's sell them 01371-876361(Great Dunmow, Essex) as well as the copper baot nails and roves to match - sold by weight. Measure what comes out to get the size.

It's worse reading about how to do this than doing it. Trickest bit I reckon will be getting the two planks you are refastening up tight together as you drive the rove on. When they built the boat they would have been working from the bottom upwards and would have been able to clamp them together.

Good luck

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[Mirelle]

3/32", just to split a hair!

in the smaller sizes!

Not a lot I can add to that. You need a good pair of end cutters to crop the nails off, and it is ABSOLUTELY VITAL to have your helper dolly up on the head of the nail.

Having said which, I would try hardening up the existing fastenings, rather than replacing them, first. Copper fastenings never seem to corrode significantly, and they can often be drawn up tighter.

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[nordic]

Thanks for the info. She's a 1962 Swedish built Nordic Folkboat in good order with no broken frames etc. However she is raced hard and has taken a pounding. The leaks and associated apparent nail wear appear to be starboard quarter ahead of the mast and a few planks above the garboard - if you can imagine her well keeled over and pounding into the waves I think that could be what has done the damage!

The planks above the water line are varnished, the nail holes are plugged with mahogany plugs, not filler. The ones below are painted and antifouled so the nail holes may well be only filled.

I am getting a local known and recommended wooden boat man to look at her next week out of the water, but I am grateful for your expertise as I like to know something about a problem before relying on somebody else!

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[tillergirl]

Well the mahogany plugs will come out the same way as filler, just care and patience needed. I'm not sure you got significant nail wear from what you have described so Mirelle's tightning advice would be my first thought.

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[davidbuttriss]

Nails can be hardened up, I used the following method.
1) Remove putty or wood plug.
2) Have helper hold a "dolly" against nail head. I used a large parrallel punch , this gave substance to the dolly making it easier for the helper to apply good pressure to the nail head. The shaft end was ground down to the same diameter as the nail heads.
3) Using a socket strike the rove, ensuring the socket was clear of the nail. Only hit the rove once, a good square blow is better than a number of ill aimed batterings. Any more than one hit could also split the rove.
4) Re-pein the end of the nail.
5) Remove dolly and move onto next nail.
A number of rives split which and nails broke but in both cases new nails and roves were used to make good.

Finally DO NOT CAULK THE PLANKS BETWEEN LANDS AND PLANK. This bodge will always end in tears.

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[nordic]

Re: copper fastenings

Thanks everyone for the useful advice. I knew I should take with a pinch of salt the advice to caulk the planks! This from an "old gaffer" too!

The boat is coming out of the water Wednesday and will hopefully be examined the next day. I want an expert to look at it in case I am missing something obvious with concentrating on the nails!

Problem with trying re-tightening is that I won't know if it is effective until she goes back in the water and is sailed. The crane is not cheap, but they do say sailing is like sitting in a cold shower tearing up five pound notes!

Seriously though, I do want to make a proper job of it as it is too good a boat to spoil for the proverbial h'peth of tar.

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[Casey]

I also have a clinker built boat which leaked like the proverbial the first summer I owned her. I removed all of the old (very old?) paint and general gunge by employing someone skilled with the Farrow System which has recently been reviewed in Classic Boat Magazine. After building up the paint using Blakes system and sticking to their instructions I found that the boat hardly leaked at all the second year. The third year I could not put her into the water until mid July after a very dry spring and early summer and again, she leaked and I had to keep an automatic pump working. This, the fourth year, I put her in early June after a wet spring and I do not need the pump and she makes about a bucketful of water a week.

What I am really saying is clean her off and put her back into the water remembering that the planks take about three hours to take up and the frames probably a month. After that see if she leaks and plan next year accordingly.

I sailed my boat single handed down Southampton Water today and I thought that buying her and spending so much time and effort on her was the best decision I had made for a very long time.

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