New boom for 41' mast furling AWB (on a budget) - do we panic?!

dankilb

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It's not a sentence anyone wants to utter - but I think we need a new boom! The boat is a 1989 Jeanneau Voyage 12.50 with a Francespar furling mast. We've recently redone all standing rigging and completed a 'nut, bolt and rivet' restoration of the mast, so I've become familiar with availability (or not) of parts.

I'll post some pics later when I'm back on the boat, but the problems are twofold:

First, removing the vang bracket revealed a large corrosion hole in the lower groove/track. The area under the bracket (approx 150 x 30mm) has entirely disintegrated. There is similar corrosion under each mainsheet bale, although there is still material there to work with (unlike under the vang fitting). It is typical - if bad - stainless into/on aluminium damage.

Secondly, I'm pretty confident in saying there is no source of a replacement outhaul car to run on the 32mm 'X'-beam track that appears part of the extrusion. Research suggests that it is an Amiot/Goiot type. The US sources of parts (Rigrite etc.) have long dried up. Ronstan have helped with measurements from the factory and theirs definitely won't fit. Harken's 32mm system is proprietary and - at over £1k for the car - even if we got lucky and it seemed to 'fit' I don't think I'd risk running it (I understand they use recirculating ball bearing cars working to tight tolerances).

The best suggestion for the track issues is to bolt a new one on top of the old (e.g. the Ronstan 32mm beam). This feels a bit bodgy. The old track doesn't present a large flat surface nor tonnes of material along the centreline to drill/tap into. Cost for this, plus other bits we'd need, would be in the £1k range.

The corrosion hole could be patched somehow with a custom stainless vang bracket riveted in place (there isn't really enough flat 'meat' around the hole for a simple plate - it would need to curve around the boom profile) . I could also try to braze a repair piece of aluminium over the hole (although this obviously couldn't be loaded by the vang without further modification). I could get a pro welder down to the pontoon. I doubt we could get the boom (4.8m!) anywhere off site. With the anodising etc. it wouldn't be easy to weld and I doubt it could be achieved making the groove/track still usable (brackets and bales would therefore need to be fastened outside of and through whatever repairs were attempted).

So, I've sent requests for prices on a new boom to my contact at Sparcraft (who are the closest current derivative of Francespar) as well as Selden and ZSpars. I cannot even guess the number of figures I'm likely to receive in return - could it be 5?! Watch this space for updates.

I have the horrible feeling this could be ruin either the season or my credit rating - or both!
 
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I'm puzzled - why can a 4.8m boom not be transported. If you buy a new boom I assume it will be about 4.8m long (and you suggest some might be supplied from France). A 20' container is more than 4.8m and they are commonly moved as are 40' containers. Caravans are commonly longer than 4.8m.

I'd just stick it on my roof rack - but maybe its different where you are.

Jonathan

Again - photos would be Oh! so useful. and someone might come up with a bright idea or 6.
 
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It's not a sentence anyone wants to utter - but I think we need a new boom! The boat is a 1989 Jeanneau Voyage 12.50 with a Francespar furling mast. We've recently redone all standing rigging and completed a 'nut, bolt and rivet' restoration of the mast, so I've become familiar with availability (or not) of parts.

I'll post some pics later when I'm back on the boat, but the problems are twofold:

First, removing the vang bracket revealed a large corrosion hole in the lower groove/track. The area under the bracket (approx 150 x 30mm) has entirely disintegrated. There is similar corrosion under each mainsheet bale, although there is still material there to work with (unlike under the vang fitting). It is typical - if bad - stainless into/on aluminium damage.

Secondly, I'm pretty confident in saying there is no source of a replacement outhaul car to run on the 32mm 'X'-beam track that appears part of the extrusion. Research suggests that it is an Amiot/Goiot type. The US sources of parts (Rigrite etc.) have long dried up. Ronstan have helped with measurements from the factory and theirs definitely won't fit. Harken's 32mm system is proprietary and - at over £1k for the car - even if we got lucky and it seemed to 'fit' I don't think I'd risk running it (I understand they use recirculating ball bearing cars working to tight tolerances).

The best suggestion for the track issues is to bolt a new one on top of the old (e.g. the Ronstan 32mm beam). This feels a bit bodgy. The old track doesn't present a large flat surface nor tonnes of material along the centreline to drill/tap into. Cost for this, plus other bits we'd need, would be in the £1k range.

The corrosion hole could be patched somehow with a custom stainless vang bracket riveted in place (there isn't really enough flat 'meat' around the hole for a simple plate - it would need to curve around the boom profile) . I could also try to braze a repair piece of aluminium over the hole (although this obviously couldn't be loaded by the vang without further modification). I could get a pro welder down to the pontoon. I doubt we could get the boom (4.8m!) anywhere off site. With the anodising etc. it wouldn't be easy to weld and I doubt it could be achieved making the groove/track still usable (brackets and bales would therefore need to be fastened outside of and through whatever repairs were attempted).

So, I've sent requests for prices on a new boom to my contact at Sparcraft (who are the closest current derivative of Francespar) as well as Selden and ZSpars. I cannot even guess the number of figures I'm likely to receive in return - could it be 5?! Watch this space for updates.

I have the horrible feeling this could be ruin either the season or my credit rating - or both!
Everything is fixable, dont panic, the boom is not that unwieldy, welding is easy for a decent welder, we watch tig welders every year here in our marina, they bring their bottles etc to the pontoon. So find a welder, drop the boom on tomthe deck/pontoon and get them to weld flat bits in, then drill and tap. The sliding bits? In real life they dont move that much so get an average posotion and weld
 
I'm puzzled - why can a 4.8m boom not be transported. If you buy a new boom I assume it will be about 4.8m long (and you suggest some might be supplied from France). A 20' container is more than 4.8m and they are commonly moved as are 40' containers. Caravans are commonly longer than 4.8m.

I'd just stick it on my roof rack - but maybe its different where you are.

Jonathan

Again - photos would be Oh! so useful. and someone might come up with a bright idea or 6.
True. No inherent problem(s) with transporting it, although I don't have the wherewithal myself (so would be another cost).

nt welder, we watch tig welders every year here in our marina, they bring their bottles etc to the pontoon. So find a welder, drop the boom on tomthe deck/pontoon and get them to weld flat bits in, then drill and tap. The sliding bits? In real life they dont move that much so get an average posotion and weld
Also true. No doubt the hole could be welded. I probably wouldn't rely on that groove area to support the vang loads anymore either way, so any repair could be to replace the missing material and then fabricating an external bracket to mount the vang:

Capture.jpg

The bracket would need to curve (in red) to cover enough 'meat' to rivet into (in green!).
 
More photographic evidence -

Offending hole:
IMG-6432.jpg


The vang bracket shown next to its hole - the bracket itself pre-dates the sort of 'rod kicker' vang we're fitting and so would need to be beefed-up or replaced anyway:
IMG-6438.jpg


Close-up of the hole. Presumably it could be patched (e.g. piece 3mm x 30mm flat) and welded. I was even thinking I could practice my brazing skills with repair rods (assuming no direct load would go through the repair piece):

IMG-6433.jpg


This is the worse area under one of the mainsheet bales. It's well on its way to the same fate too:

IMG-6434.jpg
 
First, removing the vang bracket revealed a large corrosion hole in the lower groove/track. The area under the bracket (approx 150 x 30mm) has entirely disintegrated. There is similar corrosion under each mainsheet bale, although there is still material there to work with (unlike under the vang fitting). It is typical - if bad - stainless into/on aluminium damage.
Just seen the latest photos. You have no choice but to order a new boom as corrosion holes were most likely to have been caused by electrolysis due to alloy and stainless steel being in contact with salt water. I had a similar thing a few years ago with a spinnaker pole. An extra fitting was added by a previous owner without a Duralac barrier and it pulled out leaving 4 holes. When I talked with a number of technical experts, they all said replace the pole.

You can order a new boom from any of the mast suppliers and they will arrange delivery as well. Yes it will be a hit to the wallet, but what will the cost be if the boom breaks and ruins the sail, not to mention wrecking holiday plans or similar. Knowing there is a weakness there and you decide to have a repair might not cover you with an insurance claim.
 
More photographic evidence -

Offending hole:
IMG-6432.jpg


The vang bracket shown next to its hole - the bracket itself pre-dates the sort of 'rod kicker' vang we're fitting and so would need to be beefed-up or replaced anyway:
IMG-6438.jpg


Close-up of the hole. Presumably it could be patched (e.g. piece 3mm x 30mm flat) and welded. I was even thinking I could practice my brazing skills with repair rods (assuming no direct load would go through the repair piece):

IMG-6433.jpg


This is the worse area under one of the mainsheet bales. It's well on its way to the same fate too:

IMG-6434.jpg
We snapped our boom at the vang connection point several years ago. We had it externally plated with 6mm plate. A new vang bracket was welded on in 10mm plate. Stronger than the original.
A large plate folded to the profile of your boom and riveted in place with 6mm rivets would solve your problem for not much money. Weld on new heavy duty vang mount and you are back in business
 
We've recently redone all standing rigging and completed a 'nut, bolt and rivet' restoration of the mast, so I've become familiar with availability (or not) of parts.


Given the above, I guess you have a rigger you trust. What do they have to say about it?
 
Just seen the latest photos. You have no choice but to order a new boom as corrosion holes were most likely to have been caused by electrolysis due to alloy and stainless steel being in contact with salt water. I had a similar thing a few years ago with a spinnaker pole. An extra fitting was added by a previous owner without a Duralac barrier and it pulled out leaving 4 holes. When I talked with a number of technical experts, they all said replace the pole.

You can order a new boom from any of the mast suppliers and they will arrange delivery as well. Yes it will be a hit to the wallet, but what will the cost be if the boom breaks and ruins the sail, not to mention wrecking holiday plans or similar. Knowing there is a weakness there and you decide to have a repair might not cover you with an insurance claim.
Repair it, not an issue
 
Thanks all for the input. On the boat so will reply more specifically later. But on a few general points:

I'm aligned to the view that the holes can be repaired. That was my initial intention until I heard back from Ronstan that their car definitely wouldn't fit the track (the track being the second 'replacement factor' - on which I'll post more pics later). The question is how the cost of welding/repair and the parts to make the track work will stack up against any quotes I receive for a new replacement.

The boat has never been sailed in our ownership (3+ years - she's a major project!) and so there's no question of an insurance claim. If the fitting popped off while sailing leaving behind that hole - then I might consider speaking to them...

This is a cruising boat and we've had to make substantive compromises in replacing other parts (e.g. foot blocks where we couldn't stretch the ££££s to big boat 'race' versions) meaning that we really should be reefing above - say - 25 knots. I appreciate others push their boats harder. But I do agree that, if we do ever break/snap this boom, it'll probably be in that area of the vang fitting!

We are friendly with the local boatyard and they did the swaging and yard/crane work for our rigging job. They have a few very competent boatbuilders but are currently without a dedicated welder (or indeed rigger, for that matter). We're in the NW of England though so engineering firms abound and we aren't afraid to use them!
 
If you plate the boom as I suggested you will be fixing to the plate not the boom.
Yup if I plate then as per the image posted above - the red (plate) would have the bracket for the vang welded to it and be riveted along the green lines with 6mm monels.

Capture.jpg

The days of using that track/groove or attaching anything to them boom are past, I think.

I might also make similar plates to mount the bales (mainsheet attachment eyes). There's a very good local place that only does bending (sheet, tube, bar etc.) and so I could get them to make up a series of bent plates (or a long one that I chop up). I think forming those the bends neatly would be beyond me, even in 3mm.
 
Yup if I plate then as per the image posted above - the red (plate) would have the bracket for the vang welded to it and be riveted along the green lines with 6mm monels.

Capture.jpg

The days of using that track/groove or attaching anything to them boom are past, I think.

I might also make similar plates to mount the bales (mainsheet attachment eyes). There's a very good local place that only does bending (sheet, tube, bar etc.) and so I could get them to make up a series of bent plates (or a long one that I chop up). I think forming those the bends neatly would be beyond me, even in 3mm.
Our plate is two foot long. It has a double row of 6mm rivets. 24 on each side of the boom. I would wrap the plate around the sides or the boom as well. You want it strong. That way you could get a row of 12 rivets where your green marks are and another row along the sides of the boom. If you have time, get the plate anodised before you fit it
 
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