new boat to me, first time heads questions and blakes sea cocks.

[ltcom]

Hi,
I have read the thread regarding stuck blakes seacocks.

I was told these were new in 2015, but I can't see any grease nipples. The toilet was in a right state and I still feel dirty after a long shower (tiny boat and no room to swing a little finger)
The toilet outlet valve is stuck, but I think it is stuck in the OPEN position. Is it acceptable to leave alone with that one and leave it open for now?

The inlet one is missing a handle.
It is closed.
Do I turn clockwise or anticlockwise to open it? I tried moles but they were too long, the valve is in a very awkward location. I will return with a tiny adjustable spanner. But is it clockwise or anticlockwise to open?

I left them soaking in plus gas for now.

Thanks in advance.

I found this video incase it is useful to others.

Why are blakes prevalent with heads as opposed to ball valve seacocks?

 

[ltcom]

OK, I've found that it does not matter whether clockwise or not. 120 degrees seems to be the angle of turn required.

But is it ok to leave the exit cock open all season? (assuming I can't free it whilst afloat).

 

[howardclark]

It's anti-clockwise to open. My blakes sea cock has a grease point but I'm sure I remember earlier ones without- either way it's not a problem-my grease nipple is inaccessible so I just grease it when out of the water. Blakes are much more robust than ball valves which is why they are prevalent. The pipe is double clipped - I hate leaving seacocks open but guess you have little choice. If you could dry out between tides that's plenty of time to strip clean and grease -always of course keeping a handy bung around in case of trouble!

 

[Leighb]

It really matters if the heads is below water level, in that case there is a risk of siphoning unless the pipe work is correctly arranged to prevent that. On our last boat, we had to make sure the inlet was shut as otherwise the sink (whose drain shared the toilet inlet seacock) could overflow on starboard tack, likewise the galley sink on the other tack - different seacock but same problem.

 

[{151760}]

Many people do leave them open. It will be a problem if the hose cracks or breaks off; or if you don't have a vented loop in the inlet hose, a siphon could be created which floods the boat. It's rare but does happen.
Try loosening, but not removing the flange that holds the turning part in place. This may loosen the cone enough so that it turns.
Blakes' are prevalent because they're the best and last forever.

 

[pvb]

OK, I've found that it does not matter whether clockwise or not. 120 degrees seems to be the angle of turn required.

But is it ok to leave the exit cock open all season? (assuming I can't free it whilst afloat).

Correct. Turning it clockwise or anticlockwise will work to close it. You could leave it open if your toilet plumbing permits that (see other replies). I'd be tempted to loosen the top plate a bit and see if you can get it moving.

Blakes seacocks are old technology - they may last a long time, but there are modern cost-effective alternatives.

 

[ltcom]

Many thanks for advice.

 

[alahol2]

Just for reference there is an arrow on the square boss (that the handle fits over) of a Blakes seacock. The arrow points towards the hole in the cone. So when the arrow points at the inlet hose the valve is open. The valve can be turned off in either direction.

 

[ltcom]

I have got the handles moving now by various lubricants (without loosening any nuts) and applying a little force.
But is this GOOD ENOUGH? They do not turn with a little finger yet, though.
Should i keep waggling them to free them up or bed them in or do a proper job and beach boat (long keel) or very carefully remove the cones, bung the hole and re-grease them?
I like them now and would like to look after them.
Thanks in advance.

 

[{151760}]

The procedure for 're-furbing' them is to use grinding paste on cone and socket to bed them into each other, then clean off and apply a small amount of grease. I doubt that's going to work with the boat in the water. You are able to move them, so you can close them, so I would wait until next haul-out to work on them. They might loosen up with use, but why haven't you tried loosening the fastening nuts? It might just do the trick.

 

[ltcom]

The procedure for 're-furbing' them is to use grinding paste on cone and socket to bed them into each other, then clean off and apply a small amount of grease. I doubt that's going to work with the boat in the water. You are able to move them, so you can close them, so I would wait until next haul-out to work on them. They might loosen up with use, but why haven't you tried loosening the fastening nuts? It might just do the trick.

I will try to loosen the nuts (they are very very difficult to get at and it took me two days to let my hands heal from the cuts I received whilst working on the blakes). It will be a tricky job, but obviously a sensible thing you suggest. 22 foot boat, not a lot of space.

I didn't know if those in the know thought that I had done enough and continued opening and closing would free up the old caked grease and do no harm to the metal but maybe help bed them in? If turning them whilst still stiff could harm them and not free them up then I will definitely loosen the 2 nuts per seacock even if it takes all day and the fabrication of special long reaching tools (I was sweating like a pig at the end of the last attempt). Being on swinging mooring always means I have left one toll behind too.

Thanks

 

[doug748]

I would not fiddle further whilst on the water, wait till you are out then do them.
You will not harm them in use but if they start to weep, leaving the boat will worry the hell out of you.

 

[Topcat47]

The procedure for 're-furbing' them is to use grinding paste on cone and socket to bed them into each other, then clean off and apply a small amount of grease. I doubt that's going to work with the boat in the water. You are able to move them, so you can close them, so I would wait until next haul-out to work on them. They might loosen up with use, but why haven't you tried loosening the fastening nuts? It might just do the trick.

+1. Also you don't need to rebed them every year, but stripping and re-greasing is essential. My problem is always getting the keeper on the top set up level.

 

[ltcom]

Thankyou. I would like to leave them alone and just keep applying plus gas and turning them, but needed the reassurance you guys have given me that I won't damage them.

 

[ex-Gladys]

Thankyou. I would like to leave them alone and just keep applying plus gas and turning them, but needed the reassurance you guys have given me that I won't damage them.

I wouldn't use Plus Gas, the grease is what keeps them watertight, and plus gas will probably not help that

 

[{151760}]

I will try to loosen the nuts (they are very very difficult to get at and it took me two days to let my hands heal from the cuts I received whilst working on the blakes). It will be a tricky job, but obviously a sensible thing you suggest. 22 foot boat, not a lot of space.

I didn't know if those in the know thought that I had done enough and continued opening and closing would free up the old caked grease and do no harm to the metal but maybe help bed them in? If turning them whilst still stiff could harm them and not free them up then I will definitely loosen the 2 nuts per seacock even if it takes all day and the fabrication of special long reaching tools (I was sweating like a pig at the end of the last attempt). Being on swinging mooring always means I have left one toll behind too.

Thanks

Ok. Been there, done that!

 

[James_Calvert]

Re releasing the plate, important to ease off any locknuts on the bolts first, otherwise you'll damage the bolt threads. They don't need to be more than finger tight when doing them up again.

If it's moving enough to open and close, and not leaking, I'd be inclined to leave it at that until you can take the cones out, clean off the old grease and replace with new. And although I've done it a few times afloat, with a handy bung to replace the cone when pulled out, I'd not recommend this for the first time. Or any time if you can avoid it. You'll get water mixed up with the grease. And won't clean out the body of the seacock very well. Not ideal and you might end up tightening up more than you want again, to stop leaks.

 

[Norman_E]

The more you open and close them the better, but if they are dry of grease you really need to get some in. As others say slightly loosening the nuts may well free up the movement, and it might be the case that the nuts have been over-tightened anyway. They need to be just tight enough to stop leaks and over-tightening can stop movement. As said above they are old technology and if you do need to replace any, whatever you do, do not do what was suggested in that video, and buy gate valves. Good quality DZR brass ball valves are OK, as are bronze one, but the modern alternative with no corrosion issues are valves made of Marelon or glass reinforced nylon. My own preference is Tru Design valves.

If you wonder why not gate valves, the answer is that the coarse thread which drives the valve up and down is prone to wear and can leave the valve stuck open or closed. In addition most are made of common brass prone to galvanic corrosion. They have no place on a boat.