New boat - handing over the cash

[LWR]

I posted a few days ago that I would be picking up my new T50 soon... I had a call from the dealer today that has set me thinking.

I learned a long time ago that there's no point in wringing every ounce of margin out of a deal or trying to 'win' on principle - it's far better that both parties feel they did OK out of the deal and that everybody did well. However, that attitude can sometimes leave you open to being taken advantage of...

Boat is likely to be ready for delivery on 6/12 - because I took an available winter build slot, there was not much time between me placing my order (late Sept) and boat completion last week. Therefore the idea of stage payments became meaningless due to the compression of the schedule.

So, far I have given the dealer a holding deposit and signed by boat over to him - approx 45% of the purchase price. The dealer is insisting that I financially complete next week in order to take delivery 6/12. The balance is to be provided by finance company who can only advance the full amount (for some reason) rather than any stage payment or hold-back.

Given there's a full two weeks between next week and the delivery date, I think that's too long to be at risk, and who knows during the PDI there could be something go wrong that delays delivery.

I've been clear with the dealer that I can't pay any more at this stage for a boat that I haven't seen - and I would prefer to authorise the wire during the day of handover when we have had an inspection. The dealer has refused and said that 'this is very unusual' and 'everbody else buys boats this way - it's how we sell all our boats'. Dealer has also said that while I can look at the boat during PDI, it will not be in showroon condition as the carpets and headlinings may be up.

Who is being unreasonable - me or the dealer? Given the lender is admanant they can't change the agreement at this late stage (and I can't change lenders in time) what is the best approach? Is it true that everybody else is happy to pay for a boat before they've seen it/inspected it?

Appreciate your thoughts and similar experiences.

LWR

 

[peterg]

Sounds like the dealer wants two weeks interest on 'your' money....

I'm not surpprised if this is the 'usual' way people do things as we all seem to get shafted when buying boats and somehow we have to put up with it as there's only a few places to buy a boat (especially a new one) so there isn't any choice...

BUT given the fact that this boat will be costing something approaching the average house price in many areas of the UK, would you want to hand over ALL the money two weeks before you got the door keys /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif I wouldn't!

 

[Coupe]

[ QUOTE ]

The dealer has refused and said that 'this is very unusual' and 'everbody else buys boats this way - it's how we sell all our boats'.

Appreciate your thoughts and similar experiences.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well not wanting to betray any confidence between our dealer and ourselves only to say that they had a much more reasonable attitude which worked to the mutual benefit of both parties. They didn't even have the luxury of 45% at this stage of the contract.

So not the way everybody else buys their boats.

Like all deals, it's down to a bit of arm wrestling.

 

[Richard10002]

Assuming that you have signed a contract to buy the boat, and the dealer to sell it, firstly I guess you should look at the contract and see what it says.

In particular, see what it says in relation to when payment/s are due, and the penalties for not making them. If it says the final payment is due next week, and there are no penalties, then the penalty for breach of this payment condition would probably be limited to damages, and the only damages I can see is interest on the money.

Legally, you need to weigh the penalties, if any, against the peace of mind you will get from paying when you take over the boat.

Practically, what's he going to do if you dont pay until you want to? Sell the boat to someone else? keep Your boat and deposit? Chances are he will sell you the boat....

From his perspective, are you going to renege on the deal and not buy the boat? He's got your boat and deposit, so you are going to do the deal.

So, barring unforseen circumstances, the deal is going to be done, and you both know it.

It sounds like you think he may get arsey if you dont pay up.... and you may feel that this will lead to a less than satisfactory PDI and subsequent after sales service.

How much was the holding deposit? One solution may be to suggest that he returns the deposit and you authorise the finance payment. This would mean that he has the bulk of his money up front, and you have something in reserve which you can withold until satisfied.

In the period between him returning your deposit and you authorising the finance..... He still has your boat.

Alternatively, whilst he can "insist" that you complete next week, you can "insist" just as assertively that you will complete when the boat is ready for handover and you are happy.

If you are concerned about him getting arsey, this may be the time to book a survey to take place after the PDI has been done and they are ready to hand it over.

Whatever happens, I dont think you should let him push you about... worst case scenario is that once he's got all of your money, there is nothing to stop him doing a crap PDI, and handing over a boat with problems which he refuses to resolve after sale.

 

[SteveE]

We have brought 2 new Sealines a F33 and F43 and I have never paid more that a £1,000.00 deposit and the full payment on delivery. As far as I am concerned I would not part pay for a car and a boat should be no different.

I made a mistake of buying a brand new house off plan, and funny enough a number of things that you would have seen in a completed build where not there when we completed.. Never again, I would rather walk away from the sale, rather than not being in control of the sale.

 

[Gludy]

[ QUOTE ]
The balance is to be provided by finance company who can only advance the full amount (for some reason) rather than any stage payment or hold-back.


[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt if that is true - please chack with the finance company abs they would, I am sure, be more than happy to even agree a hold back sum to ensure that the boat is OK and hence their security OK. It will only cost a phone call to find out.

I regret being so stupid as to fall for all the stuff you were told - I paid 100% in advance for a boat that arrived without major parts and had a host of problems - never again!!!

 

[Dave3729]

I think the dealer is being more than unfair. You dont pay for somthing you have not received. If the company went into liquidation a week before handover how would that leave you. I think you have given a more than fair deposit and the dealer is pushing hes luck. The dealer would not risk blowing the deal if you said the balance would be paid on inspection. Even if you had to give another 10% hold on to something they wont be as helpful once they have all your cash.

 

[Coupe]

Interesting that as we did similar deal with Sealine. Put €5k down on C39 and balance following PDI.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Whatever the contract says, you are at risk if you hand over the final payment now. What happens if the dealer goes bust between now and 6/12 or absconds with your money, both of which have happened in the past. I guess this is why the finance company is unwilling to complete as well. Their loan is secured on the boat itself and until the boat exists and is in your possession, there is no security for them.
My guess is that the dealer is trying it on in order that he can pay the manufacturer with your money and not incur interest charges himself

 

[fireball]

Re: Second hand boat

Not having the luxury of being able to afford a new boat (well not a big boat anyway) the brokers wanted our money cleared before we could take our purchase away ... perfectly reasonable as we'd already been all over the boat and the surveyor had given us his verdict and it was a second hand boat ...

I certainly wouldn't contemplate paying 100% for a boat I hadn't seen - new build or not ...

The dealer probably wants your money because of cash flow and interest on your cash for 2 weeks. Don't forget - you did them a favour - you A) bought a boat from THEM and not their competitor and B) you're getting it mid winter when most others are tucking themselves up snug and warm ....

 

[gimmesunshine]

Re: Second hand boat

dont pay, its not a boat until its finished and signed off by pdi and your survey. youve already shown more than enough commitment to the deal - scamming dealer

 

[sealine]

Re: Second hand boat

We did the same with our new Sealine gave a £1k deposit, our old sealine and remainder of cash on the day of handover, after the PDI. although the deal was done and agreed our boat be part payment, we kept our old boat until the day of the handover.

I would not hand over the ballance until I have seen the boat, what happens if they hit a problem and late delivering the boat? you would be both boatless and be paying for the new boat, for god knows how long.

 

[carlton]

I don't get it - surely the finance/mortgage company are supposed to be acting in their own and YOUR interests. This means they shouldn't hand over all the dosh until both you - and they - are entirely satisfied you're getting what it says on the tin.

Following on from that, don't they want to see a surveyor's report of the FINISHED boat before handing over the lot ? It's in their interests to retain a little something, say £10,000 for snagging, or have I missed something here ?

 

[longjohnsilver]

Absolutely no way Jose! There was a broker in Wales 3 years back who went bust having taken a substantial sum from customers and not giving them anything in return.

How would you feel if it was a house you were buying and the vendor asked you to pay every penny 2 weeks before completion? Your solicitor would never agree to such a deal. The broker is trying it on and you will be on tenterhooks for every minute of the 2 weeks not knowing whether you'll get the boat or not. What they are asking you to do stinks.

 

[A_8]

No way I would hand over the balance until I am happy with the boat. The fact that they insist (and wanted 45% on order)would put me off big time. I would start thinking they may have cashflow problems and/or bad credit with the bank and/or manufacturer.
If this is the case you are in a tricky situation as you've already given them 45%, what happens if they dont get your money...will they go bankrupt?
Before deciding what I would do I would discuss this in detail with them and check whatever they say about their financial status with their bank and suppliers. If a problem I would talk to the finance company and try to find a way where the boat is yours whatever happens.

 

[mtb]

bet the dealer

aint got the money to pay for it hence the unusual step of trying to get money before it's there infront of you.

be careful

 

[DIW]

Just a thought,have you visited Kidderminster and actually seen your boat in build?

 

[mont]

Re: Second hand boat

Deal with everyone in the same way commercially - dont trust them - that way there is no confusion.

If you dont you'll join the rest of the regular postings on here asking advice about resolving an honest and fair deal gone wrong or you'll be starting your own web site (no dig intended).

 

[Lakesailor]

[ QUOTE ]

Practically, what's he going to do if you dont pay until you want to? Sell the boat to someone else? keep Your boat and deposit? Chances are he will sell you the boat....


[/ QUOTE ] That's what I thought. It's coming up to the Xmas break and they need to be cash rich for the period, so they're going to complete the sale.
But why's he pushing?
(If you're in any doubt about the financial security of him having the money then insist he gives you title on the boat and contract him to finish by the proposed date with financial penalties for late delivery. He won't do it, but his reaction may be illuminating.)
It's only a matter of a couple of weeks, what's his panic?

 

[tcm]

but in january it\'s an OLD boat?

I don't like for two reasons - firstly of course the fact you're paying a bit early, coverd elsewhere.

But second and more expensive issue - you should want the boat to be new in that first season. Cept it wn't be new - it'll be an 06 boat, "last year". So in say spring three years time, yours will be a year older than a boat delivered in Jan 07 and worth less - even though the January boat was actually the very next one off the line after yours and cost the same.

This becomes proportionally less and les important the longer you keep it. But even after 10 years, if all other things were equal would you prefer to buy a '96 or '97 boat for exactly the same money? The 97 please...

I would tellem i want the boat registered jan 2007 please.