New battery advice

[skyflyer]

I have a feeling this could be like anchors - 6 people answer and we get 7 opinions - but I'd still like to hear all seven - or more!

Our 170aH leisure battery has died over the winter (doesn't hold charge for more than a few hours, dropping form 13v to 9.5v) ; it was last replaced in 2009 and as the boat is shared by three of us it gets pretty heavy use every season so I am not too concerned about that; time to replace it.

So - conscious of a bit of brouhaha about different types I try and do some research and am so far ending up with a lot of conflicting advice.

I read a piece, first, on the Stirling website; Stirling is quite adamant that a so called 'leisure battery' is nothing of the sort and that gel and maintenance free batteries create more problems than they solve. His advice - by a standard battery with the ability to top up the electrolyte.

Then i did some more research and find the exact opposite opinion!

Given the difference between a basic battery (~£120) and a 'top of the range (~£620), I'd like to know exactly what one supposedly gets for the money. If a better battery lasts longer but requires a very specific charging regime then I'm not sure I'm not simply better off spending £120 every couple of years rather than £620 and then killing it through improper maintenance?


In short - I am leaning towards the lower end of the range and wanted to know if anyone has a good reason not to do this?

Then theres the question of maintenance free or a conventional battery with unscrewable plugs to top up. Are they a no-no on the boat - does acid go everywhere if you are heeled over with the toe-rail in the water?

Final supplementary question - our electric set up is the 1-2-Both-Off with just two batteries so the leisure battery CAN be used for starting. Is this a good idea or not?

Thanks, as always, for the variety of opinions on this!

 

[nigelmercier]

I bought Lifeline AGM batteries. Expensive but awesome.

 

[Tintin]

Simple one to answer really. By spending 2x or more, do you get 2x or more life out of them.

The simple answer is no.

And with 110ah leisure batteries available with a 3yr warranty on ebay for 60ish quid the answer is even more certain.

 

[garvellachs]

I have a feeling this could be like anchors - 6 people answer and we get 7 opinions - but I'd still like to hear all seven - or more!

Then theres the question of maintenance free or a conventional battery with unscrewable plugs to top up. Are they a no-no on the boat - does acid go everywhere if you are heeled over with the toe-rail in the water?

We have wet batteries with plugs for topping up - acid stays inside but my wife always protests when sea water reaches the toe rail so we don't heel excessively.

 

[johnalison]

I'm in favour of buying cheap and being prepared to replace. My standard "heavy duty" type have lasted for about seven years now. I think that keeping them well charged with a solar panel helps.

 

[pelissima]

you do not say how you charge. But as others said, go mainstream (110Ah or 2x110Ah if you can charge them)

 

[Daydream believer]

you do not say how you charge. But as others said, go mainstream (110Ah or 2x110Ah if you can charge them)

If you have the room & can carry the weight then go for 6 V golf cart batteries. they are designed to be hammered & you get more bangs per buck

 

[Plevier]

Sterling has some odd and out of date ideas about batteries.
I would more or less agree about gel, I wouldn't touch them, but he is wrong about AGM.
Good AGM batteries are now very good, but expensive, and will charge quicker than conventional types. Cheap AGMs are usually nasty.
Nonetheless for most people conventional ones are the most economic and practical solution. To get the best out of expensive AGMs you need to have the right equipment and treat them well. If you don't want to do that, don't get them.
Apparently cheap wet ones may not be the best value, they make inflated claims.
Look at the weight. There is no substitute for lead.

 

[No Regrets]

I would (and Did!) get some decent modestly priced batteries for Fifty Shades, and they work perfectly.

If/when they fail (2 year warranty) I shall be so many quids in, I will happily pay again...

These super-dear batteries are rarely backed up with any tangible warranty.

 

[Tranona]

Final supplementary question - our electric set up is the 1-2-Both-Off with just two batteries so the leisure battery CAN be used for starting. Is this a good idea or not?

Thanks, as always, for the variety of opinions on this!

The variety of batteries (and opinions!) exists because people have different needs and different expectations. You need to look at the advantages and disadvantages of each type and weigh up what is important to you. For example a liveaboard in a hot climate that wants to be independent of the shore will have entirely different needs from a week end sailor who rarely spends more than a night on board and plugs into shorepower with an automatic charger.

From your simple set up as you describe, you probably fit the latter more than the former, so you have little need for high capacity expensive AGM batteries, nor the means of charging them efficiently. Your set up is the very basic for a reasonable sized yacht and if you can exist with the limited capacity of your house bank then no reason to have anything other than a heavy duty wet battery - a life of 5 years for a cheap battery is good going. Expanding the size of the bank and ensuring you can keep them well charged may well result in longer life. That is basically the Sterling approach and he sells products intended to maximise charging of that type of battery.

Unless you are going to change your pattern of usage and level of consumption then a wet battery will do the job, although you might want to ditch the 1-2-both and install a VSR to split the charge and separate the engine battery from the house using isolator switches with a means of paralleling the house to the engine in an emergency. That way you will always have a fully charged engine battery and the alternator charge will switch automatically to the house.

 

[MikeBz]

http://www.advancedbatterysupplies.co.uk/abs100ahagmbattery - this one is 31kg or around 6kg heavier than typical 'leisure' batteries os similar capacity. I'm wondering whether to replace my existing dead house batteries with 2 of these.

 

[GrahamM376]

For longer life fit greater capacity and go for deep cycle. I've fitted these 6v in series - http://www.tayna.co.uk/T-125-Trojan-Battery-Deep-Cycle-T125-P7262.html

 

[skyflyer]

The variety of batteries (and opinions!) exists because people have different needs and different expectations. You need to look at the advantages and disadvantages of each type and weigh up what is important to you. For example a liveaboard in a hot climate that wants to be independent of the shore will have entirely different needs from a week end sailor who rarely spends more than a night on board and plugs into shorepower with an automatic charger.

From your simple set up as you describe, you probably fit the latter more than the former, so you have little need for high capacity expensive AGM batteries, nor the means of charging them efficiently. Your set up is the very basic for a reasonable sized yacht and if you can exist with the limited capacity of your house bank then no reason to have anything other than a heavy duty wet battery - a life of 5 years for a cheap battery is good going. Expanding the size of the bank and ensuring you can keep them well charged may well result in longer life. That is basically the Sterling approach and he sells products intended to maximise charging of that type of battery.

Good points, thanks. The boat is co-owned with two others so gets used pretty much every week of the summer; having said that I have never had an issue of a shortage of power from the existing leisure bank (prior to this battery expiring, of course!) but then we usually end up motoring a bit at one end or other of the day!

Unless you are going to change your pattern of usage and level of consumption then a wet battery will do the job, although you might want to ditch the 1-2-both and install a VSR to split the charge and separate the engine battery from the house using isolator switches with a means of paralleling the house to the engine in an emergency. That way you will always have a fully charged engine battery and the alternator charge will switch automatically to the house.

Not sure its worth the expense and hassle. We have established a pretty good regime - start the engine on one, leave it for a while to suck up the amps then switch to both. As soon as engine stops, switch to no.2. Never yet had an issue with battery power for starting. Whenever we can plug in to shore we do, and then sue 'mains' charger on both.

 

[Plevier]

Now you describe your regime a bit more I agree entirely with Tranona.
Stick with traditional. Forget AGM.

 

[geem]

On my last boat I installed four 85amp hr leisure batteries as my domestic bank. They came from a caravan shop for £45 each. I had them for 7years then sold the boat. They were still perfect after 7 years. I don't think it is wise to spend lots of money on batteries. I think it is more important to look after them. We had 124w of solar installed with charger controller limited to 13.6v to ensure no gassing. When we lived onboard for summer hols we bypassed the regulator for more amps. On long passages we used a towed generator. The batteries rarely got discharged below 75%.
My current boat has 960 amp hr of batteries! It wasn't me choice, it came like that. We have changed all lights to led, installed 320w of solar and the towed generator. The batteries will get minimal hammer and I expect they will last for years. I will let you know if they don't!

 

[Sarnia]

I agree with the Stirling advice, they make a compelling arguement against being ripped off.
The lead acid properly maintained and charged, and its not rocket science to do that, are for me the most efficient and economical batteries, even if you abuse and misuse they will take it for a while.
Yes I see no reason not to link the domestic to the engine battery if required for starting.

 

[Spi D]

The variety of batteries (and opinions!) exists because people have different needs and different expectations. You need to look at the advantages and disadvantages of each type and weigh up what is important to you. For example a liveaboard in a hot climate that wants to be independent of the shore will have entirely different needs from a week end sailor who rarely spends more than a night on board and plugs into shorepower with an automatic charger.

From your simple set up as you describe, you probably fit the latter more than the former, so you have little need for high capacity expensive AGM batteries, nor the means of charging them efficiently. Your set up is the very basic for a reasonable sized yacht and if you can exist with the limited capacity of your house bank then no reason to have anything other than a heavy duty wet battery - a life of 5 years for a cheap battery is good going. Expanding the size of the bank and ensuring you can keep them well charged may well result in longer life. That is basically the Sterling approach and he sells products intended to maximise charging of that type of battery.

Unless you are going to change your pattern of usage and level of consumption then a wet battery will do the job, although you might want to ditch the 1-2-both and install a VSR to split the charge and separate the engine battery from the house using isolator switches with a means of paralleling the house to the engine in an emergency. That way you will always have a fully charged engine battery and the alternator charge will switch automatically to the house.

Absolutely +1.

So it's homework (good help on several battery manufacturers' sites) to define your own needs and expectations, get some insight in battery & charger types and understand the basics of batteries' way of working (especially charging cycles). Give some thought to a realitistic assessment of 'worst case scenario'.
Then calculate capacities and design a setup that delivers.

For 5 decades I've been living with various battery demands on boats, cars, trucks, ambulances and all sorts of equipment and my experience is that for my use, the above philosophy works. Sourcing is always important, but rather known good qualities at a negotiated price than cheapest possible and end up with a lottery ticket.

My current mobo with twin diesels have 2 x 110 aH starting and 1 x 110 aH deep cycle domestic batteries, maintained by a 3 channel Xantrex Truecharge2 charger and battery monitor. Works for me - might work for others.
I treat my batteries well and expect them to last 7-10 years.

Edit: Almost all batteries are manufactured by Exide or Johnson Controls - regardles of name on the outside. Used to be Delta, Exide and Johnson, but Delta was aquired by Johnson and Exide filed for bankrupcy (again) in 2013.
Just like car tyres, a few control the majority and have in their power to ensure differentiation between high and low end product segments.