New batteries

[Murv]

I need to replace two of my start/leisure batteries.
Boat: 1989 Fairline Turbo 30 with 2 X TAMD61A's

The configuration is 4 batteries, with two sets of two for each engine.
The starboard engine bank only starts the engine, the port bank starts the port engine but also provides the leisure source.
After some serious abuse (running almost completely flat on at least 3 occasions) and 4 years of use, the port/leisure set are fairly clapped out.
They still start the engine, but it turns noticeably slower than the starboard one and don't have sufficient power to start the engine after 12-16 hours of running the fridge/LED lighting.
I don't want (can't afford) to reconfigure the entire layout so just want to replace the two batteries.
So, what to get?
Our power requirements are fairly low, all lighting is LED, the biggest drain is the (30 year old) compressor type fridge. We also have a 1500W inverter which is only used to power a coffee grinder and a 40W TV for maybe a couple of hours/day and the goal is to be able to manage 3 days off-grid with the assistance of a 100W solar panel to slow down the drain without causing damage to the batteries.

Current batteries are type 664, I don't know the capacity but am guessing around 110-130AH and are 850CCA.
I can't find out what the characteristics of a 664 are, they seem to be just classed as "heavy duty."
The advantages of the 664's are that they're cheap, and have a high CCA rating but I guess that this makes them less suitable as leisure batteries.
Current thinking is to go for AGM dual purpose, which I accept aren't as good at either task as dedicated batteries but might be the best bet for me?
I'm limited by the size, the batteries all sit in a box, they're a very snug fit and there really isn't anywhere else to put them.
I'm also limited by the battery charger, this is a Studer MBC 12-30/3 which is a 3 output, 12V 30 amp 3 phase unit.
It's rated as having a battery capacity of 140 (division sign) 300 AH which I assume is the range?
If so, I'm also assuming (the manual doesn't make it clear) that each output will charge up to 300AH so I could get 2 x batteries up to 150AH assuming they'll fit in the box.

Any thoughts? I don't see any sense in paying for top of the range type batteries when I could just get another pair of 664's for ~ £200 and just replace them every 3 years, just wondering if there is a more suitable option given the criteria above.

 

[Bigplumbs]

I need to replace two of my start/leisure batteries.
Boat: 1989 Fairline Turbo 30 with 2 X TAMD61A's

The configuration is 4 batteries, with two sets of two for each engine.
The starboard engine bank only starts the engine, the port bank starts the port engine but also provides the leisure source.
After some serious abuse (running almost completely flat on at least 3 occasions) and 4 years of use, the port/leisure set are fairly clapped out.
They still start the engine, but it turns noticeably slower than the starboard one and don't have sufficient power to start the engine after 12-16 hours of running the fridge/LED lighting.
I don't want (can't afford) to reconfigure the entire layout so just want to replace the two batteries.
So, what to get?
Our power requirements are fairly low, all lighting is LED, the biggest drain is the (30 year old) compressor type fridge. We also have a 1500W inverter which is only used to power a coffee grinder and a 40W TV for maybe a couple of hours/day and the goal is to be able to manage 3 days off-grid with the assistance of a 100W solar panel to slow down the drain without causing damage to the batteries.

Current batteries are type 664, I don't know the capacity but am guessing around 110-130AH and are 850CCA.
I can't find out what the characteristics of a 664 are, they seem to be just classed as "heavy duty."
The advantages of the 664's are that they're cheap, and have a high CCA rating but I guess that this makes them less suitable as leisure batteries.
Current thinking is to go for AGM dual purpose, which I accept aren't as good at either task as dedicated batteries but might be the best bet for me?
I'm limited by the size, the batteries all sit in a box, they're a very snug fit and there really isn't anywhere else to put them.
I'm also limited by the battery charger, this is a Studer MBC 12-30/3 which is a 3 output, 12V 30 amp 3 phase unit.
It's rated as having a battery capacity of 140 (division sign) 300 AH which I assume is the range?
If so, I'm also assuming (the manual doesn't make it clear) that each output will charge up to 300AH so I could get 2 x batteries up to 150AH assuming they'll fit in the box.

Any thoughts? I don't see any sense in paying for top of the range type batteries when I could just get another pair of 664's for ~ £200 and just replace them every 3 years, just wondering if there is a more suitable option given the criteria above.

I think you would be wise to replace like with like as you suggest

I am sure there will soon be others along who will spend your money and suggest replacing more than that including the fridge

To some one here money is no object

 

[petem]

I am sure there will soon be others along who will spend your money and suggest replacing more than that including the fridge

To some one here money is no object

Get out of bed the wrong side this morning Dennis? If some forumites have more money than sense, then good luck to them. I'm not aware of any that have won the lottery or have acquired their wealth without earning it.

And I like to hear different ideas, even if they're not what the OP asked for. It would be rather boring if the only response to this thread was replace like for like.

BTW, how are your 7 boats and have you bought your place in Spain yet ?

 

[rafiki_]

Give BatteryMegastore a call. They will have great value solutions for you.

 

[jrudge]

If you have run them flat before you will run them flat again.

Just buy the cheapest you can find, or possibly a small premium for a better brand ( small).

Battery " abuse" kills batteries - and in that i probably include leaving them on charge 24/7/365 like I do and unless you are very careful, have charging like Hurricane to get them back to 100% even when out for days on end I am personally not really sure that what batter you get makes a material difference. They are plastic boxes with Acid and Lead in them. I do appreciate that some Acid has been blessed with holy water and some lead is really gold in disguise


BIGPLUMS - you might want to read you own signature "Only ever look down on a person when you are bending over to help them up" before posting.

 

[[2068]]

How about something like this:

https://www.tayna.co.uk/truck-batteries/numax/664/

I wouldn't go with AGM in your case, instead I'd buy basic batteries and chuck them when they wear out after a few years.

 

[Murv]

Thanks all, some good suggestions, and it does seem to make sense to buy cheap.
I'm going to try not to flatten them, I will actually set the smart gauge alarm this time! But, as pointed out above, it's happened once so it's far from impossible it will happen again...

EDIT: Forgot to add, I am very much guilty of leaving them on charge 24/7. The charger is supposed to be a good one, but I'm not going to leave it on permanently when the new batteries are fitted.

 

[markc]

I'm with the others here that say go for the good value deep cycle batteries without any fancy tech. As for brands, I think they are just that. I used to have a car built in Crewe and they wanted 3 x the price for their batteries just because they stuck their name on them. I just replaced with a EuroCar parts special when they had an offer on, they seemed to give out the same type of electricity ;-)

 

[jrudge]

I'm with the others here that say go for the good value deep cycle batteries without any fancy tech. As for brands, I think they are just that. I used to have a car built in Crewe and they wanted 3 x the price for their batteries just because they stuck their name on them. I just replaced with a EuroCar parts special when they had an offer on, they seemed to give out the same type of electricity ;-)

To the naked eye sir it may seem the same, but I can assure you this electricity was hand built using specially chosen electrons.

The shut lines are not straight, can you adjust them please.

Sir that will be because it is hand built.

Errr ... hang on ... 2 sentences ago you told me it was better as it was hand built and now you are saying a robot does a better job of aligning panels

 

[jrudge]

Thanks all, some good suggestions, and it does seem to make sense to buy cheap.
I'm going to try not to flatten them, I will actually set the smart gauge alarm this time! But, as pointed out above, it's happened once so it's far from impossible it will happen again...

EDIT: Forgot to add, I am very much guilty of leaving them on charge 24/7. The charger is supposed to be a good one, but I'm not going to leave it on permanently when the new batteries are fitted.

I dont know if 24/7 charging hurts or not, but logically I sort of feel it must. If the charger does it stuff absolutely then maybe not - the snag is that the batteries run the bilge pumps, so god forbid there is a leak the advantage is that the charger can keep pumping water ( unless it sinks of course)

That is why I dont just turn it all off.

In a former life before being educated on here I used to disconnect the batteries over winter. Of course I then had no bilge pumps at all!

 

[luptonj]

If you want to stick with the same layout then I would suggest getting the cheapest batteries you can as it's sure to abuse the batteries using them as leisure and starting batteries.
Just find the largest amp hours with the same dimensions.
btw - they may not be completely clapped out, I'm not surprised they don't start the engine after running a fridge for 16 hours, especially if they are leisure type batteries they have a lower max current output to start with so would turn the engine over slower.
If they are 110 AH each, then you have about 110 AH in total before they are effectively flat so over 16 hours you really can only be drawing 6amps and they'll be empty.

Alternatively if you know which wires are which it would be relatively easy to change the setup so you have one battery for each engine and 2 leisure batteries, just the cost of a new switch and some wire and crimps.

 

[luptonj]

I dont know if 24/7 charging hurts or not, but logically I sort of feel it must.

There should be no harm in 24/7 charging as long as the charger switches to a float current. If there was any damage being done the best chargers would switch off rather than float charge.

I'm also limited by the battery charger, this is a Studer MBC 12-30/3 which is a 3 output, 12V 30 amp 3 phase unit.
.

This doesn't limit the size of the batteries you can charge, just how long they take.
The only limit it may have is if it's original the charging curve will probably be limited to lead acid batteries.

 

[Murv]

Brilliant, thanks all, cheap and cheerful it is

The charger isn't original, it isn't made any more but at a guess I would imagine it was probably fitted 10 Years ago when all the nav gear was upgraded. It will charge AGM's, from memory it runs a slightly higher voltage if set to AGM battery mode.
It's far more likely that I've killed the batteries from flattening them, that was initially due to my complete inexperience with having a boat that was actually capable of going somewhere! After that, it was a bit of a vicious cycle as the batteries tired, it then became easier to inadvertently discharge them too much.

Longer term, the plan is to re-configure with dedicated start, and deep cycle batteries, and a new fridge. Short term though, we're off to Holland again at the end of next Month and replacing the batteries is rapidly marching it's way up the jobs list!

 

[luptonj]

just one last suggestion - change it so both engines start off the same bank, should just be a matter of moving a cable from one isolation switch to the other if you already have a splitter for charging both banks.
Then you can use normal deep cycle batteries for the leisure bank, they'll last longer and your engines will start easier with normal start batteries.

 

[Murv]

just one last suggestion - change it so both engines start off the same bank, should just be a matter of moving a cable from one isolation switch to the other if you already have a splitter for charging both banks.
Then you can use normal deep cycle batteries for the leisure bank, they'll last longer and your engines will start easier with normal start batteries.

Thank you for that, sounds a very simple, and good, idea!
There is a split charge switch, so there must be some system of splitting charge where needed although I'd always assumed each engine just charges its own bank.
There is also a crossover button that fires a relay which enables the port (leisure) engine to start from the starboard side if/when that bank flattens.
I will investigate further!

 

[bigwow]

I've used this company several times, prices are keen as is delivery. I think they are on ebay as well
Alpha Batteries Ltd
PETER Gabbott
Unit 110
Spotland Bridge Mill
Rochdale
Lancashire
ol11 5bu
United Kingdom

 

[dj43]

I've used this company several times, prices are keen as is delivery. I think they are on ebay as well
Alpha Batteries Ltd
PETER Gabbott
Unit 110
Spotland Bridge Mill
Rochdale
Lancashire
ol11 5bu
United Kingdom

+1 used them several times and they have always been more compertive than battery Megastore ,no connection just a satisfied customer ,plus there next day delivery is that .

 

[oldgit]

Our power requirements are fairly "low"

THIS MUST BE SOME NEW USE OF THE WORD "LOW "OF WHICH HAVE PREVIOUSLY UNAWARE.

SEEM TO REMEMBER ON VISIT TO YOUR BOAT BEING AMAZED THAT THE BOAT DID NOT INSTANTLY SELF COMBUST WITH HEAT FROM THE SHEER NUMBER OF ELECTRIC DEVICES BEING USED AT ONE TIME. !

 

[Murv]

I've used this company several times, prices are keen as is delivery. I think they are on ebay as well
Alpha Batteries Ltd
PETER Gabbott
Unit 110
Spotland Bridge Mill
Rochdale
Lancashire
ol11 5bu
United Kingdom

+1 used them several times and they have always been more compertive than battery Megastore ,no connection just a satisfied customer ,plus there next day delivery is that .

Thanks both, I'll certainly give them a try. Must admit I don't usually look much past battery megastore and Tayna.

Our power requirements are fairly "low"

THIS MUST BE SOME NEW USE OF THE WORD "LOW "OF WHICH HAVE PREVIOUSLY UNAWARE.

SEEM TO REMEMBER ON VISIT TO YOUR BOAT BEING AMAZED THAT THE BOAT DID NOT INSTANTLY SELF COMBUST WITH HEAT FROM THE SHEER NUMBER OF ELECTRIC DEVICES BEING USED AT ONE TIME. !

Sir, whatever do you mean? Just a couple of 60" plasma screens, consoles and the hot tub, I doubt we'll pulling more than a few hundred amps at any one time. Hardly a big ask of a couple of clapped out lorry batteries I wouldn't have thought?

Offended, of Tunbridge Wells,

 

[Portofino]

With boats for domestic get the same or greater Ah if they fit and the connect fit too .

The Crewe , they stopped ham fisted Brits swinging about with welding torches attempting to create a “ hand finished “ product years ago .
Instead all bodies are made buy robots in the “ Fartherland “ —— properly.
Even std spec colours are robot painted in Germany - Ok quite of bit of manual hand flatting inbetween the 18 layers .
Then the complete ( and correct shape ) and painted body is sent to Crewe for the British fit out .
The W12 engines are made in Crewe too hand assembled.

If you spec your own colour, not on the vast std menu , then they refinish a white one —- in Crewe —— they let loose a guy with a spray gun - so ruining the surface finish , — tip buy a std spec colour .

Funnily enough they have two bats like a boat
RHS is small relative to the LHS - dedicated starter and the LHS is a massive AGM “domestic “ to run all the systems- like a boat there’s a X over / parallel function too .

So you should never be in a situation whereby you “ fail to proceed “ due to flat bat

If the LHS gets old then all sorts of spurious Check Engine Lights come on and stuff stops working .

They go fast and are a nice place to be in .