need your thoughts...folkboat project...worth a grand?

Niander

Niander

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Hi i know where there is an east german folkboat project im thinking of getting very delapitated it has haches missing and is half full of rain water!!!???!!!but hull seems sound [i had the water pumped out]engine will be shot???
inc road trailer
not clinker built but carvel built[he says its worth more because of this...is that true]?...cheers
carvel built???..worth more than clinker built???
project worth a grand???
any thoughts ??cheers
 
I have never owned a wooden boat and have no specialist knowledge. However I have a long time interest in boats and have owned a number. I would not touch this one with a very long, superheated, cold drawn, bargepole. These East European boats were cheap when new, and I have heard it said that many corners were cut. If you have a good knowledge of wooden boatbuilding and plenty of cash to put into the project; and you always wanted this type of boat: and you can get him down to 200 quid; and it has full gear in outstanding condition, including sails... then think about it for a couple of weeks and say no. Of course I exaggerate for effect but, from the tone of your post, I sense you are a newcomer to the sport and this type of buy could put you off forever. Brian
 
hi im not a newcomer to the sport [i used to have a hurley 22]
but ive never had a wooden boat[heard they are lots of work]
btw i have lots of free time and need something to do...lol
 
Cavel is only better becouse it cost more to build to the same strength as clincker.Its slower than a clinker boat but wont sink if left in the water and ice(if not to thick) over winter which a clinker one without clacking will.

A£1000 why not? what wood is it made of?Is the keel iron?(mostly) are the chain plates blackening the wood(rot) how ate the rigging eyes/chain plates?Just screwed in or with bolts in sheer??

The mast ?is it wood ? hollow or solid? Rudder pintels,are they screws or through bolts is the rudder through bolted or has it spikes driven in.

Is the cabin raised or on one level??

A few thoughts and questions look in the cockpit and see if water has danaged floors frames

Cavals good clinker faster!!Its lighter and more rigid clinker will plane far faster on a run!
 
You need a lot of commitment. There are a number of similar projects in the yard where I am based that have got nowhere after an initial burst of enthusiasm, including a Folkboat. Some succeed of course and if you real want inspiration take a look at Russell Ferriday's website www.Victorious.co.uk.
 
Fresh water is a killer with timber, far more so than salt. Strongly recommend you ask this question on the Classic forum. They really know their stuff with timber boats.
 
Hi mast is solid wood
and the keel is iron
btw i have lots of free time and need something to do...lol
but yes i want lots of imput on this one plz...
 
Sorry Niander, I only read your bio as an aferthought. As VicS has said there are a lot of failed projects around and I feel the vendor will be very pleased to get a grand rather than a regular yard bill. These boats were not considered the best, or most attractive, when new. If I you are going to put in all that effort you might consider something that will command a more ready market when you come to sell. Its one thing to put the hours in, but do think on (as my Grandmother used to say) if you need to spend money as well.
 
The FB assoc is a bit naf on help as hear needed!Raceing or tweeks ok but a FB in service needed¨¨

Fbs have the huge advantage of a class boat dragons and x-boats as well but FBs seem to have the edge as they are the best class boat made.They can sail anywhere in conditions that make bavs head for home while they have a keel

Small is great they take to the seas as the cork from a bottle you throw overboard.There faster and stronger than might be imagined and the IF development is just amazing a large comfortable "small" world cruiser"

FBs can be easly rebuilt if not to far gone.Just dont do more than one job at a time.Ive seen the claking routed out then the interior taken out deck seems/canvas removed then the job given up

Keep your FB sail away at all times that way when the yard tells you if you dont leave in two days it will cost double and double each day(that happens!) then you just leave even calcking out can be got in in a day and the next paint

Caval plank replacements easy you just need to read a ruler!Still£1000 might be expensive???But with a road trailor cheap! That must?? be worth £500/£600??

Remember as well the riging that costs far more than its worth from a boat shop look at it as its normaly ssteel!

Look inside whats there?Matrasses cost as do cooking elements winter covers from FB central cost 480 euros ill look for the link i think ists www.folkboat.dk ??
 
Hi!

Problem with lots of Eastern European boats is that they were fastened with galvanised fastenings and often need re-doing - big job!

Lovely boats, but I got rid of mine after 6 years... It leaked like a sieve!!

Good luck!
 
OK guys here is some hard info.

Folkboats are legendary as far as their seaworthiness and capabilities are concerned. But not all Folkboats are good folkboats. And if you want to sail one hard, which is exceptionally enjoyable, get top of the range oilskins.

Loads were imported from East Germany and Poland in the sixties and although not indentical they have common features. Like less than durable mahogany planking that hates fresh water ingress so if she's not been kept well painted expect rot in the upper strakes etc. Like strip planking and many laminated members, heavily dependent on glue which was never expected to last 40 odd years. Like galvanised steel nails mixed with copper rivets, urg! Like plywood decks never expected to last 40 years etc etc.
So walk, no RUN, away from this, there are plenty of run down wooden boats that by accident or design were built of more durable stuff in the first place.

Note to all Owners of sound east german and polish folkboats: You obviously bought well in the first place and have cherished your boats since. That doesn't sound like the case here.

cheers Paul
 
Far too much money. You can get a sound, good fettle, sailing example for about £5K.
I didn't buy a carvel built one, out of the water and stripped with very little rot for less money than that. Bit of coachroof to repair, but loads of split frames. Other frames had been sistered in the past and it just looked like a whole load of work.
This one was built in Windermere, and I see it still, no further on, 2 years down the line. If you want to spend that kind of money, at least buy one like this that is sound and just needs some basic repairs.
 
I would 2nd most of the cautionary posts here. I owned a FB for a couple of years and they are indeed a lovely boat to sail.

My boat was actually in sailing condition, but I still spent most of the first summer working on what I had assumed where a few fairly insignificant defects that needed sorting.

This sounds like a worthwhile project only if a) as you say you have plenty of time b) you can get covered location to work in ( I see you are in the Hebredes ) and c) if you can get it for a sensible price...maybe £2-300.

I assume it has got sails and spars etc? otherwise you are looking for poss £2000 for these and forget hoping to lay yr hands on 2nd hand ones.

Engine you may get a 2nd hand unit or at least on a FB you could go for an outboard.

Good luck but be brutal with the clip board and costings!

All best Nick
 
Get a book from Wessex Resins

http://www.wessex-resins.com/contact.html

called 'Wooden Boat Restoration and Repair' catalogue number 002-970. It is written simply with plenty of line drawings and also considers Evaluating and inspecting, assessing the likelihood of repairs with line drawings AND how to do it. It is A4 size + is only 70 pages long and easily understood. You can read it in 2 hours or so and take it with you when you re-inspect. Best buy you can get I think

I have considered same thing for boat of around same price, which I haven't seen yet. Figures run approx: Visiting boat and having it brought close to home, £500, storage one year £600, Insurance £200, Epoxy course and minimum start one gallon mix + bit to go £300. Tools, sanders, belts, discs, saws £200. Timber £500. Fasteners, paint, varnish, antifoul and misc £500. She has dried out so into water for a month, out of water and return to water when finished £300 -that's cheap! Engine service, alignment, shaft, keel bolts, instruments misc bits I have missed £1000. She has been kept under two heavy duty tarps so no prob with fresh water just one or two seams have opened up. As somebody else stated, fresh water = rot in joints - everywhere it stands or drips so great care and inspection there. If I am lucky these costs mentioned will be near enough to within a £1000 more- NOT less. Eventual selling price approx £6.5K - £7.5K. Buy the book it is a good start and will repay itself many times over at £4 ish. Best of luck and leave the rose coloureds at home! PS This boat is the project of another chap who bought it from another chap whose project it was and it belonged to another chap who had let her deteriorate, illness is the cause of many abandonments.
This guy is worth a study

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/Wood.htm

Loads to keep you busy for years and you can sit aboard dreaming of the day she hits the water. The engine is likely to be kaput.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry Niander, I only read your bio as an aferthought. As VicS has said there are a lot of failed projects around and I feel the vendor will be very pleased to get a grand rather than a regular yard bill. These boats were not considered the best, or most attractive, when new. If I you are going to put in all that effort you might consider something that will command a more ready market when you come to sell. Its one thing to put the hours in, but do think on (as my Grandmother used to say) if you need to spend money as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is getting out of hand I think ..... The ORIGINAL Eastern Europe FB was a good boat and NOT built to any cut corners. Certainly not with all the ones I have seen / been in contact with. I live in Eastern Europe and wonder what the basis is for the EE poor build claims ?
You would be surprsied how many boats are licence built out here and where a lot of the workforce worked before ...

The Eastern Europe FB is THE Classic and not so many survive now as the West Europe version with its greater cabin volume and more "caravanny" aspects took the market.

The initial description defies the pricing ... that at least I would submit ... pricing would be more like a few hundred quid - but you say it has trailer ... road or Yard ? Is it useable trailer ? Has the boat got all it's sails / rigging etc. etc. Is it a complete job lot ? If you have to start adding stuff to it to complete - then the pricing looks even more high ....

IF you were to complete the renovation of an Eastern version - it would have a pretty unique place in UK etc. as very few are there ... and IMHO is a very nice looking boat when looked after ....

EasternFolkboat1.jpg


EasternFolkboat2.jpg


Honest ? £1000 is a lot of money for a boat left to die in a yard .... considering seller is likely getting yard bills for it - you might even get it for nothing !! But what-ever you do - make sure Seller clears all the outstanding bills with yard and any other people / services who may be owed ...
There are other boats at £1000 that you could look at with less demand to renovate etc.
 
i have done up a few old wrecks in the past and one thing is certain ,there is allways more wrong with them than you find in your initial look /survey .

The other fact of life is that repairs will take twice as long and cost twice as much as you think.

If you are a skilled woodworker/engineer and you are well equipped with tools /machinery then you could do it but you wont make a profit or get a cheap boat.you will spend more than the boat is worth getting it up and running again.

Yard storage costs have to be factored in also.

I am not a gloom and doom merchant just an average yachtie who has seen too many people put a lot of money and time into projects that have rarely given back any profit or pleasure.

If you scour through boats and outboards 4 sale site you will often find genuine bargain boats at under 2k that may need work but are in commision complete with all the(expensive) bits and pieces.
 
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