Need advice for buying steel yacht

sirjumpalot · 17 Sep 2009

Hi, I am interested in buying a Roberts Mauritius Ketch (45 foot) 1983. Hull material: 6 mm steel below water line, 5 mm topside. Deck & cabin material:3 mm steel.
Now, the boat has been advertised as being maintained in superb condition. Providing this is true:
1. What would be the life expectancy of a steel boat?
2. How often should the anodes be changed?
3. What should I look for when checking the boat's structural integrity in terms of the condition of the steel?
4. What are the main maintenance issues for such a boat?

Any other advice or tips will be most welcomed.

KellysEye · 18 Sep 2009

Steel boats rust from the inside out. Look for corrosion anywhere there is a potential for water - water pumps, through hulls, sinks, anchor locker, shower, stern gland, through deck electrical fittings etc. If these areas look to be recently painted be suspicious. It's also worth getting a surveyor (who specialises in steel) to ultrasound the hull to check the thickness.

Teak and steel don't mix, so look for corrosion around any teak. Teak and treadmaster decks are bad news. If that's the only issue with the boat then strip, sandblast if neccessary etc as below.

Anodes need changing when eaten down, just like any boat. Do not over anode the boat, the paint will come off.

If you scratch the boat paint it fast, at least five coats. If you are religious about keeping the boat dry inside it should last forever. You will need a dehumideifier in winter.

If you want to strip anything back to steel sandblast it and paint it quickly, first coat zinc rich epoxy, then two more coats of underwater epoxy for anything below the waterline - all different colours so you can be sure of the coating thickness.

mikewade · 18 Sep 2009

buying a steel boat

I second everything Kellyseye has said. A 6mm hull is heavier than one would expect so you should consider it will go on pretty much for ever. The interior is the place to start and firstly can you get behind the panels to check the frames particularly around the bilge and the anchor locker. Does the anchor locker drain and if so how? Water trapped in here will really eat into the steel. Not so bothered about things like the sink. How is she insulated?
are any cables to the outside, i.e. pulpit & pushpit lights exiting through glands or waterproof connectors. You would be surprised how many times I have seen cable just sikaflexed through deck plates and resulting corriosion. The good thing is they are really easy to repair, cut the bad bits out and weld in new ones. I have done this on mine and she is really fine. In terms of the exterior, when was she last out and stripped back. I use epoxy tar on my hull upto the water line followed by three coats of primer to stop it leaching through and then antifoul. Top sides, zinc rich primer, 3 coats, as good as you can afford then either epoxy paint a couple of coats or if the top sides are good then normal paint to freshen her up.
I have two anodes on the hull, 2 on the rudder and one on the shaft. See posts in the last couple of weeks about 240Vac supply on the boat started by me. Some good advice there about galvanic isolators etc.
Be aware she is probably twice as heavy as an AWB of the same size so she wont be quick off the mark, but I find them very sea kindly and once they start moving they keep going and can be just as exilharating. Just remember when mooring that because they are heavy you have to stick her into neutral much earlier as their mass tends to keep them going when drifiting so berthing may be a little strange until you get used to her. Nothing to be afraid of with a steel boat. Very strong and so easy to repair. But you have to be willing to keep at the rust spots although I tend to not worry until the start of the season, when I freshen her up again. Agreed on anything on the decks like timber and tekdek. I have seen two other steel boats with timber in particular and also the stick on rubber with really bad rust going right through the decks and these can be a real pain to get off before you can start to remidy. Avoid at all costs. I use non slip deck paint and it looks great.

oldsaltoz · 19 Sep 2009

G'day and welcome to the forums,

You need to make sure you can to the hull structural ribs, this is an area that condemns many steel craft, even with 5 and 6 mm plate she will not hold together if her ribs rust out.

In some areas the rib can only be accessed by cutting the plates, very messy and very expensive and can be very difficult to protect if the internal can not be accessed after welding the plate back.

Hope this helps.

Avagoodweekend......

PCUK · 19 Sep 2009

Check whether it was epoxy coated inside and out from new. If not, forget it!

milfordman · 19 Sep 2009

I have a steel ebtide 33, 21 years old she was hot zinc sprayed on out side and epoxy painted in side virtually no rust apart for nicks and dings. The topsides suffered with the paint lifting so it was shot blasted and repainted with epoxy primer and finished with 2 pack poly-urethane. This lasted ten years. Where possible I always shot blast, but if not possible then Chelade gives verry good results.

I was suprised to hear of the objection to teak on steel causeing corrosion. I have every deck fitting on my boat mounted on teak pads. There are 78 pads, I know because they have to be cleaned, rinsed with oxalic acid to brighten every year before being oiled. There is no visible corrosion under or around these pads.

TQA · 20 Sep 2009

sirjumpalot said:
Hi, I am interested in buying a Roberts Mauritius Ketch (45 foot) 1983. Hull material: 6 mm steel below water line, 5 mm topside. Deck & cabin material:3 mm steel.
Now, the boat has been advertised as being maintained in superb condition. Providing this is true:
1. What would be the life expectancy of a steel boat?
2. How often should the anodes be changed?
3. What should I look for when checking the boat's structural integrity in terms of the condition of the steel?
4. What are the main maintenance issues for such a boat?

Any other advice or tips will be most welcomed.

Get a good steel boat surveyor to go over it. Integral Tanks can be a problem.

But the beauty of steel is that it is possible to make a repair that is as strong as the original easily quickly and cheaply. Venuzuela is a good place for a hull refit and paint. Nice and dry and CHEAP!

KellysEye · 20 Sep 2009

>I was suprised to hear of the objection to teak on steel causeing corrosion. I have every deck fitting on my boat mounted on teak pads.

Teak and steel have different expansion rates. Because of this the sealant will eventually fail allowing water to penetrate between the steel and teak - rust is only a matter of time.

Long runs of teak (particularly decks and capping on the bulwarks) are particularly prone to that. Teak pads are different, they are relatively small. I'd still keep a good eye on them though, even a small rust stain should be investigated.

HinewaisMan · 21 Sep 2009

We too have a steel 45ft Mauritius ketch – built in NZ and launched 85. Before we bought her she had done some 70,000nm around the Pacific and we’ve just spent two years sailing from Australia to Turkey. We’ve found her to be a great sea boat.

But, we also spent pretty much the same as we paid for her in the five year refit before we left – some might say she’s heavily overcapitalised, but then she’s planned to be our home for 10 years. Bottom line, even if the hulls fine, once you start working on a 25 year old boat, you’ll find a lot of the equipment, systems, rig etc etc will be pretty tired. We chose to re-wire, re-plumb, re-power, re-rig etc etc which has the upside that since we did most of the work, we know the boat inside out.

Before you buy – check her out, get her surveyed. She will rust from the inside out – check areas like the anchor locker, under the loo, showers & sinks, bilges, through-hulls, glands, inside dorades, under fittings – especially stainless direct to steel (we lifted them, fitted teak pads with Duralac around all bolts – haven’t had any problems).. Are the water tanks intergral with the hull – open the inspection hatches – likewise fuel tanks.

If there are extensive areas of internal hull you can’t get to because of panelling, cupboards etc, be very wary. Any water that gets trapped along the stringers or against frames will start to rust over 25 years – and by water I mean condensation trapped because the limber holes are bunged up with dust. Our surveyor used one of those fibre optic things. We also had the hull ultrasounded.

From that, we discovered that the limber holes in the main compression post was blocked and we had to cut and replate underneath it – but at least that was found in a yard, not 1,000 miles offshore. But advantage of a steel boat is that you can get hull repairs done anywhere in the world – have angle grinder, will travel.

What type of rudder has she got? The early Mauritii (?) had a small rudder attached on the angled stern of the keel. Absolute buggers going downwind. We built a new rudder (50% bigger), moved it back and re-hung it vertically with, nigh on, an RSJ base support coming back from the keel. This also has the advantage of “boxing” the prop so any lines you drive over slip along the bottom. There are a number of web-sites that show this mod.

This, and her long keel, does make them even more of a swine to reverse (we’ve been amusing people for the last couple of months trying to Med moor) – but sometimes she’ll surprise you and go where you want her to go.

If she’s a ketch – are the masts independently stayed or with a triatic? Ours are now independent so if we loose one mast, the other’s not affected. Moving chain plates is easy with a steel boat.

Get to know about dis-similar metals – noble table etc. A fair book is Bruce Robert’s “The complete guide to metal boats” (isbn 0-07-136444-7) – Calder’s book has a good bit as well.

And finally, be aware when googling “Bruce Roberts” – there are actually two sites. BR himself now works out of the US, there is a second site run by a chap called Phil Hogg in Queensland – used to be mates with BR – now they hate each other. Both sites have pro & cons – both are very helpful.

As an aside, Phil Hogg took his Mauritius ketch, Fine Tolerance, through the Northwest passage, west to east, a few years back – apart from a couple of broken props, came through pretty unscathed. I believe they also then did a 360 off Newfoundland – and came up with rig intact. As I say, a good sea boat.

Hope this helps.

Peter

emnick · 21 Sep 2009

steel boat

We recently moored next to a 40ft + steel boat, they had scraped the top side when getting into the 'box' and exposed some metal below the paint.

The owner was most annoyed, he was still there 3 hours later painting. Now that is the sort of person I would buy a steel boat from!.

The boat was in excess of 20 tons, very heavy for the size but I guess would go anywhere.
Good luck.

KellysEye · 22 Sep 2009

>Any water that gets trapped along the stringers or against frames will start to rust

I have seen plans for steel boats with stringers but they are not needed for structural integrity provided the frame spacing is correct. Stringers are bad news because being horizontal you can't stop them trapping water, even if you have holes in them. Frames should be spot welded to allow any water to run down round the welds. Anything not built like that is asking for trouble.

Conachair · 22 Sep 2009

For less than 9 quid you can download the best book covering steel boat maintenance I´ve come across here..

http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-book/metal-boat-maintenance-a-do-it-yourself-guide/2255485

Covers pretty much everything you need to know.

Strolls · 29 May 2015

Apologies for bumping this long-old thread

Apologies for bumping this long-old thread, but I stumbled across it a couple of hours ago, and can't stop wondering about this.

KellysEye said:
Teak and steel have different expansion rates. Because of this the sealant will eventually fail allowing water to penetrate between the steel and teak - rust is only a matter of time.

Long runs of teak (particularly decks and capping on the bulwarks) are particularly prone to that. …

I recently saw for sale a boat which was built in the 60's with a steel hull and all teak decks - is the above comment to mean she should be avoided?

I'm not in the market, but I have been dreaming about her a little. Allegedly she has been well taken care of and recently repainted.

pvb · 29 May 2015

Re: Apologies for bumping this long-old thread

Don't believe all the scare stories you read here - if properly constructed and maintained, there's no reason why teak on steel shouldn't be very durable. For proof, just take a look at the numerous Dutch-built steel boats with teak decks.

Tranona · 29 May 2015

Re: Apologies for bumping this long-old thread

The comments were a generalisation (informed by his own experience) but a lot of truth in it. You really need to look further at the deck construction as there are different ways of using teak as a deck covering. Usually with steel decks they are laid directly on the steel and glued down with the glue expected to take the differential expansion he refers to. However the vulnerable points are the seams and particularly anywhere that there are fastenings going through the teak and the substrate where there is potential for water to get underneath the teak. The tell tale signs are streaks of rust showing through the deck or areas that take longer to dry after a shower of rain. The rust is underneath so what you see on the surface is only a small proportion of the real state underneath the teak.

Other methods of construction include a solid teak deck laid on beams or a plywood subdeck with teak on top. The ply may be independent of the steel or glassed right across to link up with the hull. Either way any water that does get through (in the same way as above) will eventually rot the substrate.

So, caution when looking at older boats with teak decks - almost independent of main construction material, but particularly steel or ply as the consequences of water getting in are more severe than GRP.

Tranona · 29 May 2015