Near Collision

[jimi]

An incident outside Cowes has bothered me for some time. Should I have done something different, and what is the potential insurance situation?
Situation: I was running on starboard tack with the Genoa poled out heading past Cowes entrance towards Old CAstle point. On my port side was a power boat race with yachts at anchor watching it, on my starboard the moorings and a large powerboat coming towards me. Just then a small yacht comes out the mmorings on port tack, pinches hard to cross under the bows of the power boat and is now on a close quarters collision course with me. If I turn to Starboard I'll TBone the power boat, IF I turn to Port I'll gybe and run the risk of collision with the anchored yachts. Aforesaid small yacht chappie is yelling at me that he's got right of way saying that I'm also on port and the windward boat ..(I'm actually on starboard!). I decide to stand on as no matter what I do I run the risk of damage and that if I do anything else that will poetentially gut me in as less clear situation as far rights & wrongs go. I know that it is my duty to avoid collision but in this situation I cant see what else I can do!

In the end the small yacht tacked bach across the powerboats bows again and the powerboat was forced to make a sharp turn to port.


If damage had been done what do you reckon liability would have been.

1) If I had been hit whilst standing on.
2) If I had turned to port to avoid collision with the small yacht & hit an anchored one.

Jim

 

[Twister_Ken]

I always have difficulty picturing scenes like this from the written word. And a lot would depend on the tide (under you or agin you).

So given those caveats, could you have let the sheets fly and even triced up the main to slow/stop, but remain on stbd and thus retain your rights over small fry? Or rounded up to close hauled, luffed and stopped the boat that way?

 

[jimi]

Tide was against me, flowing quite strongly. If I had luffed up I would have probably Tboned the Power boat. Slowed the boat, I have lost steerage way and ran the risk of getting swept by the tide into the anchored boats.

What worries me is that in this situation I could'nt see an option that did'nt have a no risk out clause... and therefor should I have been there in the first place? But we face the same situation everyday on the roads, if a loonie suddenly drives the roung way round a busy roundabout, for example, then there will be an accident ..

Jim

 

[Twister_Ken]

Spin the boat and p*ss off down tide, or was their no room to turn?

 

[ParaHandy]

Re: hangin\' offence

Is a vessel with poled out genoa proceeding with caution (because an "emergency" turn to starboard would be an almighty kerfuffle)? Here's the Notice to Mariners for the race:

NM No 23
These are high speed races and, in the interests of safety, all craft not participating in the races should keep well clear of the Start Corridor (between Egypt Point and Old Castle Point), Start Line and intended track. All vessels should proceed with caution and keep a good lookout whilst navigating in or near the areas of the races.

I would imagine that the NM has (legal) precedence over the Col Regs.

 

[jimi]

No room to turn really, possibly to port which would have involved a gybe, and in the time scale this would have been a crash gybe. Until the guy pinched up to cross in front of the Power boat, It looked as if he hwas going to pass comfortably astern of him & in front of me.

Jim

 

[hillyarder]

Re: hangin\' offence

Would that mean a race has priority over the col regs. are not the col regs the final word? I,m not being funny by the way, just interested.

 

[steve_cronin]

I always hated....

...crossing Cowes entrance at the best of times ( of which there weren't any!)

I would take an Irish stance on advice on this one:-

If I were going to do that I wouldn't start from there!

Steve Cronin

 

[jimi]

Well hung ..

Oops did'nt read the NM. In fact we were'nt aware there was a race until past Egypt point! We were running at the time and were effectively navigating in a narrow channel.
I thought I was proceeding with caution though and in fact had deliberately set the main so we would be on starboard tack. I dont think having the pole on the genoa restricted my manourability as I could just release the sheet.
I think my main question really is if I had turned to port which would have crash gybed the rig, possibly causing damage, ran the risk of being swept by the tide onto an anchored boat,am I then responsible because I have taken a risky course of action to avoid colliding with buggerlugs who having caused all the mayhem sails off into the distance never to be seen again!

Jim

 

[ParaHandy]

Buggerlug\'s defence.......

Well, M'lord, Guv, Sir, thinking to me'self ter do a bit o' mischief by annoying a power boat wot was in my way ........

Harumph, as Lord Jeffries puts his black cap on, it's the yard arm for you ....

 

[Spacewaist]

NM 23

1 Where was this published?

2 How many Solent users would have seen it?

 

[jimi]

Re: Buggerlug\'s defence.......

Weel Para, ah can chust draw the wan conclusion fae all this nonsonse aboot NMs, haein' a vessel in an unseaworthy state and statements fur ra' defence allied wi' screams o' get me Beltrami. Je t'accuse of being buggerlugs! Are you going to change yer Nom de Plume?

Jim

 

[ParaHandy]

Re: Buggerlug\'s defence.......

Wha's a nom de plume, jimmy? Can ye smoke it? and whae's Beltrami? Is it Marco, youse talking aboot? I picked up a Marco frae cherbourg last week along wi 25 o' his pals wanting a lift tae, but I dinna think ye mean him.......

 

[jimi]

Re: Buggerlug\'s defence.......

Och no, its Joe B. Ye'll be needing him

..http://www.lawscot.org.uk/whatis/famous_lawyers.html

mind ye Marco could dae ra filmin' as fur a nom de plume its a posh name for wan o' them things that ye write wi' , chust sharpen it with yer penknife, dip it in the ink pot and yer aff. Claysie's goat wan o' them an a' but it got burnt when he wis reviving ra wife when she saw ra bill fur ra heater!


Jim

 

[incognito]

NM23 ??

I am sorry, but your posting was unhelpful here - and misleading. NM23 (pp 137.. in
http://www.ukho.gov.uk/attachments/2002/NP247-02/Notices-1-24.pdf
relates to (typically) high speed ferries - nothing to do with motor boat races.

If you refer, you will see that even in the case of a highspeed ferry, ColRegs are in no way superseded.

In this case, Jimi was clearly the stand-on vessel. To have made a manouevre which resulted (ie caused) a collision with a non stand-on vessel, making a manv. to avoid him, would have made him culpable.

His question, I assume, related to the hypothetical case where the non stand-on vessel took no avoiding action.

In that case, starting the engine so as to go in reverse, or speed up, would be an action NOT deemable as contributing to the collision - this would apply to any action TAKEN IN GOOD TIME before the collision, in preparation for an actual collision avoidance manvr.

ColRegs do not say you are culpable - if you have tried to avoid a collision when it is clear the other vessel is pursuing a collision course - and yet a collision occurs.

How about letting your genoa go and hauling the main in tight if you were engine-less? That would have stood you in good stead in any enquiry.

 

[jimi]

Re: NM23 ??

I had in fact started the engine when I first saw buggerlugs as I sort of smelt trouble, but I did not anticipate his apparently suicidal pinch up and dash beneath the bows of the power boat!

Jim

 

[incognito]

Re: hangin\' offence

... re my previous... you seem to be quoting from something quite different to NM23? Could you be quoting a Notice of Race ? This has no legal standing ANYWHERE, except to the competitors in that race.

Advisement to sailors that nasty speedboats are going to be thrashing around all over the place is nice to get, so you can go somewhere else entirely, but it don't get racers off the hook if they are involved in a collision with a non-racer - to hell with NofR, ColRegs rules OK!!

 

[ParaHandy]

Re: NM23 ??

NM 23 (T) of 2002 was issued jointly by ABP Southampton, QHM Portsmouth, Harbour Masters of Southampton & Cowes.

 

[incognito]

Re: NM23 ??

URL please?

Do they really call them Notice to Mariners ???

What a cheek !!!

 

[incognito]

Re: NM23 ??

Got it now... yes, they do call them Notice to Mariners... cheeky I reckon. They rate as local byelaws in relation to the law of the land!

Even then, you are a bit selective aren't you?

It says there that ColRegs take precedence over all other considerations at all times.

The bit about spectator craft MUST KEEP OUT OF... is tendentious. A prosecution on that basis, for disobeying the NM, would probably fail, as long as the defence was ignorance of the NM.

The precedence of ColRegs can be taken for granted as National Authorities are VERY limited in how much they can override them, and not at all in this case.