Navionics Charts

[ip485]

Some help would be appreciated trying to grasp the concept of adding charts.

I understand that I can purchase a given chart on a card.

However, if I wish to download charts it would seem I need to purchase a "specially" formated card first. How much are the cards and any thoughts on good suppliers?

I further understand that only one chart can be loaded per card, so presumably if you are going off long term cruising the idea might be to purchase a number of cards first?

 

[pmagowan]

You don't give any information on your equipment etc. I use navionics for my phone and it is all sorted through the app. Computers and plotters may vary.

 

[ip485]

Ah yes, it is with Raymarine E series wide chart plotters.

 

[Murv]

I've just ordered a Navionics card for my Raymarine E series, and funnily enough phoned the chandler with a similar question.
With my Dragonfly chart, the (SD) card was blank and the charts had to be downloaded from Navionics.
With the CF card for the E, apparently the chart is pre-installed so possibly not even available for download (unless as updates.)
It's quite possible that the chandlers has that wrong, I don't see why the two systems would be different but they've assured me that that's the case. I hope so, as I'm heading straight to the boat from there and will be irritated sick if it does turn out to be blank!

Just to clarify, I know that the dragonfly and E plotter will be different as they're coded to the individual piece of kit, but I don't see why they don't use the same system of downloading the actual chart so that you always get the most up to date one.
Maybe the E series compatible cards are order only so they will always be the freshest data?

 

[prv]

I've just ordered a Navionics card for my Raymarine E series, and funnily enough phoned the chandler with a similar question.
With my Dragonfly chart, the (SD) card was blank and the charts had to be downloaded from Navionics.
With the CF card for the E, apparently the chart is pre-installed so possibly not even available for download (unless as updates.)
It's quite possible that the chandlers has that wrong

Navionics have had several different systems, and do a terrible job of explaining them.

The latest one (as of a few years ago) is called Navionics Plus. This is what I use, on a Lowrance plotter which takes micro-SD cards and a Raymarine one which takes CF.

As far as I know there is no difference between how the SD and CF versions work.

You can buy either a new card or an upgrade, which is cheaper (£75 when I bought mine). If the card you buy is an upgrade, the first time you plug it into a computer it will ask to also see your existing card; as far as I know this can be any Navionics card. Having done that check, the old card is not needed again and the upgrade card behaves just like a new one. I believe they note the ID of the old card so that it can't be reused to enable multiple upgrade cards. You could perhaps sell it on for use as-is, but I've chosen to keep mine in a drawer in case the system ever demands to see it again.

The first time you plug your new (or upgrade) card in, you will be asked which region you want it to be. This choice can't be changed; Navionics record it against the card's ID in their database and will only offer the corresponding charts for download in future. Region is something like "USA" or "Europe".

With the card purchase you get a year's subscription to the chart download service (they call it "Freshest Data"). Any time as long as you have a current subscription, you can plug in the card and select an area of the map (within your chosen region) to download the latest charts. Incidentally, for the UK and near-Continent region, you can fit the whole region on one card so the step of highlighting bits of the map is pointless, but I guess it makes more sense for big regions like the USA or Pacific.

If you have multiple cards you can associate them with the same subscription so you don't need to pay extra to keep them all up to date after the initial purchase. I bought the SD card first, then a year later bought the CF upgrade, so that gave me two years' chart updates for both, for the price of the cards. Subsequently, I just buy one subscription to keep them both up to date. Since I only update once a year, alongside correcting my paper charts, in theory with canny timing I could pay only every other year. Buy a sub in spring 2016 and update, then just before it expires in spring 2017, do another update and I'm good until spring 2018. But I usually end up thinking about this just after it's expired

Your chandler may have sold you Navionics Gold on the CF card, these are the older (and easier to understand!) ones simply stored on the card from manufacture. But if you've bought into the Plus system for the SD card, this was probably a mistake

Pete

 

[ip485]

Pete - that makes a lot of sense and thanking you for taking the time to explain.

My system came with the charts pre-installed.

I can see the card for the UK and down the coast to North Africa is around £170 with the charts installed.

I think you are suggesting you could buy a blank card for around £75 and then install a chart on that card. Do you know if you effectively pay the difference for the download or whether it is more or less costly to stock up with charts on cards before or follow the download option (obvioulsy for the moment ignoring the convenience of selecting the charts as you want / need them).

 

[prv]

I think you are suggesting you could buy a blank card for around £75

Only if you have an existing Navionics card, which entitles you to the upgrade price (which I've just checked, and is now £89). Otherwise you need a new one at £179.

Do you know if you effectively pay the difference for the download

As long as you have a current subscription, the downloads are free. The card (whether new or upgrade) comes with a one-year subscription included, which allows you to do the initial download to fill up the card and then (if you want) you can apply updates for the rest of the year.

Once the subscription expires, what's on the card will still work but you won't be able to download any more. Each additional year's subscription is around £80, but it's not compulsory if you don't mind the charts getting out of date. You can restart a subscription later once you decide an update is eventually needed.

I can see the card for the UK and down the coast to North Africa is around £170 with the charts installed.

That will be the older Navionics Gold system rather than Navionics Plus, where the charts are put on the card in the factory instead of downloaded by the purchaser. I think the main reason they moved away from this system is that chandlers have to keep a range of cards in stock, and all the time they're on the shelf the charts are getting older until nobody will want to buy them (or at least not without a discount). I don't know how updates work for this system or whether they're available at all.

Pete

 

[ip485]

Wow, thank you that is really helpful and I think I am getting there!

So as I dont have a card I purchase a card for £179 - that is blank. Clear so far.

I want the chart for say the UK and the French coast down to North Africa - so download that. I think you are saying no additional cost?

I then want the card lets say for the East Med. - now I am confused. Do I buy another blank card, or do I use the existing card (assuming there is room)?

I guess as I add charts I pay an additional sum for each further download?

Then I cross to the WIs. and I think you are suggesting regardless I would need another card anyway because the first card is licensed for Europe only charts?

 

[Murv]

Thanks Pete, and sorry to hijack the OP's thread a bit but it appears to all be relevant
That's cleared up my confusion, I did notice that Gold had been superseded by N+ (when I was checking for the dragonfly) which is why it puzzled me when the chandler offered to supply a Gold card for the E120.
Incidentally, they did say that they can't keep them in stock due to the charts becoming outdated so quickly, hence the system of ordering them in for the next day which ties in with what you say.

 

[prv]

Wow, thank you that is really helpful and I think I am getting there!

So as I dont have a card I purchase a card for £179 - that is blank. Clear so far.

I want the chart for say the UK and the French coast down to North Africa - so download that. I think you are saying no additional cost?

I then want the card lets say for the East Med. - now I am confused. Do I buy another blank card, or do I use the existing card (assuming there is room)?

I guess as I add charts I pay an additional sum for each further download?

Then I cross to the WIs. and I think you are suggesting regardless I would need another card anyway because the first card is licensed for Europe only charts?

It looks like I might have overestimated the size of the regions, especially within Europe. It's not really something I've had to deal with, as I only sail in the English Channel, so I just selected the "UK, Ireland and Holland" region and downloaded the whole lot.

The list and map here show the regions for Navionics Plus; they seem to align roughly with the Gold XG series, which would make sense as they are also priced the same.

As I understand it, you would need to buy a card for each of these areas you intend to sail in. If you were buying them all at once, that would be several identical packets off the chandler's shelf! But each one has its own unique code (inside the card, you don't see this), and when you got them home and plugged them into your computer one by one, Navionics would lock each of them to the different region that you picked. Turning it permanently from a generic card into a "French Coast" card or an "Eastern Med" card to which you can then download the relevant charts.

As far as I know, there is no mechanism for just buying charts online (for plotters; I'm ignoring iPhone apps and the like). The way you buy charts is always to pay a chandler for a physical card, that seems to be baked into the Navionics way of doing things.

Pete

 

[dunedin]

On a related point, has anybody had a go at upgrading the Navionics SILVER Europe-wide charts (on Micro-SD) that Raymarine sometimes bundled with the (more recent) e7 series plotters. This is pretty useful due to wide cover, but apparently not eligeable for updates.

Would this entitle me to getting the Navionics+ UK & Europe at the reduced "upgrade" price ? And if so would I lose access to the rest of Europe Silver data?
And if not, can I run the C-Map UK chart plotter in one slot with the Navionics Europe in the other slot?

 

[bitbaltic]

It looks like I might have overestimated the size of the regions, especially within Europe. It's not really something I've had to deal with, as I only sail in the English Channel, so I just selected the "UK, Ireland and Holland" region and downloaded the whole lot.

The list and map here show the regions for Navionics Plus; they seem to align roughly with the Gold XG series, which would make sense as they are also priced the same.

As I understand it, you would need to buy a card for each of these areas you intend to sail in. If you were buying them all at once, that would be several identical packets off the chandler's shelf! But each one has its own unique code (inside the card, you don't see this), and when you got them home and plugged them into your computer one by one, Navionics would lock each of them to the different region that you picked. Turning it permanently from a generic card into a "French Coast" card or an "Eastern Med" card to which you can then download the relevant charts.

As far as I know, there is no mechanism for just buying charts online (for plotters; I'm ignoring iPhone apps and the like). The way you buy charts is always to pay a chandler for a physical card, that seems to be baked into the Navionics way of doing things.

Pete

Having bought and set up my first ever Navionics card yesterday, I can confirm this is spot on:

Gold is obsolete and the Navionics+ areas are exactly the same as the old XG gold areas- the chart install process for plus explicitly says so- and during setup you're presented with a one-time choice of one area, in perpetuity, for the card just as it would have been with a gold card. If the OP wants to sail in multiple XG areas with plus, he will have to buy multiple cards just as he would have with gold.

The only difference between plus and gold is that plus is much more stock efficient for Navionics dealers as has been said.

Cheers

 

[ip485]

Well I dont think gentlemen the last bit is correct, only becasue I was assured at LIBS that you can download any selected chart to a card over WiFi so when cruising to far flung places and thinking I'd like the WI charts now you can download them while in the Azores.

If that is true that is where I still dont understand the pricing aspect unless you buy the card and then each chart is priced as effectively a top up fee on the cost of the card.

It does seem very strange why Navionics doesnt explain the process clearly. Their web site is hopeless from that point of view and it does seem difficult to find the correct answer to quite simple questions.

 

[bitbaltic]

Well I dont think gentlemen the last bit is correct, only becasue I was assured at LIBS that you can download any selected chart to a card over WiFi so when cruising to far flung places and thinking I'd like the WI charts now you can download them while in the Azores.

Provided you have wifi and either a new (blank) Navionics card or one initialised for the WI, then yes. if you are sitting in the Azores with a wifi signal card initialised for the Azores Or some other place that is not the WI, then no. Once you chose an area for any given card that's it.

It does seem very strange why Navionics doesnt explain the process clearly. Their web site is hopeless from that point of view and it does seem difficult to find the correct answer to quite simple questions.

Agree website is not transparent.

 

[prv]

Well I dont think gentlemen the last bit is correct, only becasue I was assured at LIBS that you can download any selected chart to a card over WiFi

Assured by who, and what makes you think he knows what he's talking about?

If he wasn't Italian, then he probably wasn't involved in building the system, in which case he has no more to go on than we do - Navionics documentation (which is crap) and experience of actually using the thing. If he's just a salesman then he may not even have the latter at all. A typical salesman won't let that stop him from sounding authoritative

Pete

 

[ip485]

prv - dont worry as you can tell (I hope) I am as cynical as you, which was why I was asking. Then as bitbaltic (thank you) suggests it may be possible. As to any pricing difference I still have no idea.

I am not worried about a few pounds, but with at least an Atlantic circuit in mind, these sort of things are useful to know because you dont always know where the winds might take you ;-) so do you buy a load of charts you might dont need, or do you fancy the option of downloading them as required - which is why I ask.

Still not really any the wiser on cost or method although the replies have been really helpful and thank you. An interesting discussion.

 

[bitbaltic]

Then as bitbaltic (thank you) suggests it may be possible.

My previous post was a bit garbled as it was done on an iphone between courses in the local curry house To be clear, I meant that of course you can download Navionics to a blank (£189) Navionics card anywhere on earth that you happen to have that blank card and a PC with wifi; but that once you download any single XG area (from the list Pete has already linked to) any given card, the card is locked to that area for ever more. Soif you buy a card in the Hamble and load UK charts to it, by the time you are sitting in the Azores and fancy using the local wifi to get some local cartography, you will have to have another blank (£189) Navionics card in your posession order to download it.

The flexibility of being to download 'on the road' is therefore linked to the availablility of blank Navionics+ cards in exotic locations, something that I've no knowledge of. If you think the cards might in any way be difficult to get hold of when cruising afar, you might as well buy several fo them in the UK and take them with you- and then you have to bear he cost up front anyway. Under these circumstances, if you don't know exactly where you are going, it may make sense not to initialise and 'lock' any cards until you know which XG areas you need.

 

[ip485]

Ah, got it that makes sense - and as you say take half a dozen blank cards and that is going to cover a significant part of the world.

So last question which I dont quite follow - when you look at the map areas on Navionics they vary a lot, so if you download say the channel compared with say the UK down to North Africa it seems strange each takes one card at the same price compared with the old structure (maybe I am looking at the old style cards) where the price varied according to the size of the maps. In other words you seem to get a lot of maps or not a lot for your £189 depending on which you select?

 

[dunedin]

And unless it has changed very rcently the Navionics chart update doesn't work with Windows 10 Edge browser.

Chrome under Win 10 does work but seems odd that after so long Navionics have not caught up with Microsoft's current PC platform

 

[bitbaltic]

So last question which I dont quite follow - when you look at the map areas on Navionics they vary a lot.....In other words you seem to get a lot of maps or not a lot for your £189 depending on which you select?

I see what you mean- e.g. if you initialise a card for say area 46XG, Central and Western Europe, it is a much bigger area than say 28XG, UK, Ireland and Holland (navionics areas here). But the limiting factor is the size of the Navionics+ card, which for an SD/Micro SD card (which I just bought) is 2GB.

Yesterday I downloaded the nautical charts and 'community updates' data for 28XG (UK) but did not include the Sonar data, because the files are very big. I can report that once I had the entire 28XG area downloaded excluding Sonar, the card was full. Therefore- even if some areas are bigger than others, you still can only get the same total volume onto a 2Gb card- e.g. you might get say 1/3 of the 46XG area at any given time.

Certainly with the bigger areas you have the advantage that you can download different parts of it at different times, so fundamentally you do get access to more cartography for your money; but if you wanted to have all of e.g. the 46XG area all at once, you would probably have to buy three cards to start with.