National Historic Ships. 2010 Flagship

[oldfrank]

Two pages covering Sheemaun on pages 26 & 27 of CB 23. I met the owner at the Thames Revival event and a charming gentleman he was too.

Erm; I know everyone loves a smart *rse - but don't they know they should neither be flying a pilot jack underway nor steaming whilst dressed overall? Not quite sure what the extraneous blue ensign was doing amongst the bunting either - perhaps it was just a row of flags. The French courtesy flag could have been better positioned ... starboard yardarm would have been better - in the unlikely event that anyone noticed, the port side might have been considered discourteous.

Durt Prarper! (as they say in these parts).

Old Frank

 

[Ubergeekian]

Erm; I know everyone loves a smart *rse - but don't they know they should neither be flying a pilot jack underway...

Sez who? The Waverley was flying a natty pilot jack all the way from Glasgow to Rothesay and back last summer (as she has done for at least thirty years) and you don't get much steaminger than that.

 

[oldfrank]

Doesn't make it right.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Doesn't make it right.

Neither does some bloke on the web saying it's wrong make it wrong. Why shouldn't we do it?

 

[Woodlouse]

Neither does some bloke on the web saying it's wrong make it wrong. Why shouldn't we do it?

Tradition and etiquette.

And if you argue why that matters you might as well just query why we say please and thank you. It's pretty pointless when you really think about it. But it keeps the earth turning.

 

[oldfrank]

I'll look up the authority and post it if it helps. Flag etiquette doesn't matter; it's not important - just an indication of form. May be National Historic Ships Flagship of the year should be seen to be exhibiting a little form?

 

[Ubergeekian]

I'll look up the authority and post it if it helps.

Please do. As far as I can see, the tradition of yachts - and other vessels - flying pilot jacks goes back many, many years and I have never heard of any restriction to "not under way".

 

[TamarMike]

I would love a boat like that just so I could post about the technicalities of setting a squaresail on the Mobo's forum!

 

[Seanick]

Sheemaun belonged to one of my masters at skool. She came up the Thames to winter at the rowing club. The final lock (Pangbourne) was always a bit touch and go depthwise, and it was usual to have quite a few boys hauling on ropes to get her through and over the sill!

 

[oldfrank]

Knew I'd find the references somewhere: "The Manual of Flag Etiquette" written by John Irving:

"The use of a stem jack is restricted as follows. It is worn at a small jackstaff in the bows of powercraft and at a jackstaff at the bowsprit cap of large sailing vessels. Underway it must not be flown except when the vessel is dressed with mast head ensigns. In harbour, the pilot jack as a stem jack is hoisted with colours in the morning and hauled down at sunset. The jack is never dipped in salute but must be half-masted when ensigns are half masted for mourning."

"Ships underway do not dress overall ..."

"Dressing Ship ... to make certain that no flag which could be mistaken for some national flag can be found in an 'inferior' position to some other. ...House flags, ensigns, prize flags and burgees should never be mixed and used indisciminately on the dressing lines."

Probably just about makes my point. Old Frank

 

[Ubergeekian]

"The use of a stem jack is restricted as follows. It is worn at a small jackstaff in the bows of powercraft and at a jackstaff at the bowsprit cap of large sailing vessels. Underway it must not be flown except when the vessel is dressed with mast head ensigns. In harbour, the pilot jack as a stem jack is hoisted with colours in the morning and hauled down at sunset. The jack is never dipped in salute but must be half-masted when ensigns are half masted fior mourning."

Interesting, but a single quite from a book published in the early 1930's does not constitute authoritative proof. All sorts of people have had all sorts of ideas about flag etiquette - particularly in the 20's and 30's when many of the rules of the game were being made up, modified, discarded, reinterpreted and so on.

Not, of course, that you shouldn't play the game by whatever rules you want, but neither you not I has any right to get huffy about other interpretations or other versions.

 

[oldfrank]

I certainly didn't provide a publication date - although little changes in a hurry where flag etiquette is concerned: - i) Flags are fun. ii) Proper chaps get it right.

If it makes you any happier, I could very easily provide further references. I'm not huffy - just that when a body with the chutzpah to describe itself as National Historic Ships goes to Press, it really ought to make sure it's correct.

 

[Seajet]

Uber, I'm afraid Old Frank has got you on this one !

Even I know one shouldn't wear a jack when under way, though it's not unusual to see RN warships doing it; then again I've seen them at anchor off Spithead ( ie right in full view of any Admiral bobbing up from his secretary ) with all the nav' lights blazing - now that's not just poor form, it could be dangerous !

As for the average RN wireless operators' mic' technique & language ...

 

[Ubergeekian]

I certainly didn't provide a publication date - although little changes in a hurry where flag etiquette is concerned: - i) Flags are fun. ii) Proper chaps get it right.

The trouble is that "right" has changed a lot over the years - and has never, in any case, been decided on in any sort of logical, consistent or democratic way. In may well be that in 1932 an old buffer snoozing in front of the yacht club fire woke with a start and said "I say, Carruthers old boy, seems to me it's demned bad form to fly a pilot jack under way" and Carruthers grunted his assent, but that doesn't make it "right".

Anyway, since a pilot jack was originally how you signalled for a pilot - before becoming purely decorative - what would be the point of keeping it for harbour. Bit late by then, old boy, what?

 

[VexedIllologist]

Reflection of the times

Ain't it?

 

[Cap'n Pugsley]

Hi - I'm the owner/restorer of 'Sheemaun'. Rest assured that in UK waters we follow flag etiquette. The photo at issue was taken at the 2009 Fete de la Mer Boulogne. The Authorities had invited 'Sheemaun' along with some 50 historic vessels and generously provided berthing and good food and wine for the Skippers & Crews. We were asked to fly all bunting as practicable, to be colourful and to partake in the Grand Parade around the harbour displaying to the crowds of some 27,000 who attended. We all happily did our best.

It was not all flags and frump, we had to endure heavy weather en passage and one of the historic vessels was lost in heavy seas off Gravelines. It was not the Fleet Review off Spithead, it was not the Battle of Trafalgar, it was a Festival.

Wishing you fair winds and there is a welcome anytime to 'Sheemaun'.

Cap'n Pugsley

 

[Cap'n Pugsley]

Sheemaun belonged to one of my masters at skool. She came up the Thames to winter at the rowing club. The final lock (Pangbourne) was always a bit touch and go depthwise, and it was usual to have quite a few boys hauling on ropes to get her through and over the sill!

Hi - I'm the owner/restorer of 'Sheemaun' and of course know Lt Cmdr Ian Pearson.

Pleased to learn that you are now a boat-builder and shipwright. 'Sheemaun' is berthed at Ramsgate and you would be welcomed to visit. She will be at the 2011 Boulogne Festival and at the 2011 Mayors Thames Festival. if you wish to contact then send a note via the Ramsgate Marina Office at Military Road Ramsgate.

As to the controversy over the bunting, of course 'Sheemaun' abides by flag etiquette when in UK waters, however we were invited to attend at the Boulogne 2009 Historic Maritime Festival and all vessels were asked by the Festival Authorities to fly all practicable bunting and to be colourful when on the Grand Parade before the 27,000 odd visitors, we and the other vessels were happy to oblige, it was after all a festival and not a Victorian Spithead Fleet review or the Battle of Trafalgar!

Best wishes,

Cap'n Pugsley