Naming and shaming forum query

[dralex]

Are we legally allowed to name companies on the forum who we feel have given poor/bad service, or is this libellous?

BTW- my identity was hijacked at the end of last week. I was out of the country and SWMBO pretended to be me to get a question answered for her father- if you don't like any of my posts, blame it on her /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Magic_Sailor]

This is really a question for Kim. However, it seems to me that as long as you are factual it can't be libelous. I'm sure the rest of us would appraciate a warning.

Magic

 

[aitchw]

I can't see a problem as long as you stick to the facts of a situation.

 

[pessimist]

It seems to me that if you've been the victim of poor service it is a service to other members of the board to 'name and shame'. Agree with Aitchw - if your report is purely factual I can't see a problem. I guess, however, its really a question for Kim (board policy etc.).

I did name a company who I believed had offered me poor service and got no warnings from Kim.

 

[Mirelle]

Use code, like YM reviews do

For example, "remarkable service" can mean "remarkably bad service".

 

[charles_reed]

Having caused embarrassment to Kim on two or three occasions, I now respect his (or YBWs) indictability if any criticism is published on this board.

There have been occasions in the past where BBers appear to have set out on a campaign of vilification of a supplier with whom they're having a disagreement - it's too easy to resort to BBs like this in an attempt to blackmail.

For those reasons I prefer to level any criticisms in the form of a PM.

It is difficult - one should share or warn others about unethical behaviour - but one has to make sure that you're reporting hard fact and allowing others to draw their own conclusion.

 

[ShipsDog]

Frau Bentos

I love it cos it tastes like crap .. oops do FB have grounds for libel?

 

[Guest]

It is not libellous provided you stick to an accurate description of the facts. Try to set it out as objectively as possible. Where possible, having evidence to support assertions (correspondance, e-mails etc.) is a good thing.

 

[kimhollamby]

Few things to consider

Theoretically if you tell the truth, objectively, with no facts open to intepretation, then you might skate safely around libel. Even then, you have to be careful because it is possible to tell the truth abosultely and still get found against in court, either because you are not able to prove your defence, or perhaps because an over-enthusiastic presentation of your angst pushed you straight into the maw of slander law.

It gets worse:

a) Any action on items published here will most likely be against IPC, not just against you. We will not be in possession of the facts and not in a good position to defend any claim. We sit in a tall building with a healthy bank balance which makes us a useful target for anyone that wants to bring us in front of a judge and jury.

b) Most actions in fact will not result in a court case but they would tie us up in knots for months and burn all the time we should be using to develop things here and elsewhere on the websites.

c) An action might also result in an injunction against the forum, which would remove it from use.

Fortunately we have never got to any of the serious stages outlined above but there are several occasions in the year when we have to react to legal messages of one kind or another; it is doubly frustrating because not only does it mess up a day but we also have no way of easily validating whether the complainant has a case or not.

As has been stated elsewhere we don't act against people who wish to state their views about experiences they have had, good or bad - the forum is unmoderated and not every post is read in any case. But we do ask for a considerable degree of circumspection in posts and tolerance if, for any reason, we feel we have to step in to protect our positition, or (in cases where we think the views to be tainted in some way) that of the person or company being targeted.

Incidentally we aim to offer exactly the same protection to forum users, with rapid action taken against anyone who sets out to attack or libel other users. Hopefully that makes this place slightly saner than the average bulletin board.

 

[tcm]

agree with others that provided it's factual it ain't libellous. But in any case, the target could have to claim material losses in terms of decreased turnover or whatever.

However, my feeling is that it's a bit off to put up a thead which describes a single bad experience if it's a one-off, especially in the middle of one's own red mist. It's for this reason that i find modern restaurant reviews somewhat distateful and often unfair.

Separately, it's of much greater use to everyone hereabouts to lettem know of the better outlets and suppliers and products than it is to hear of the less good ones.

 

[jhr]

Having been landed with a major libel payout in the Walker Wingsail case where, ahem, some might consider that the litigant got a bit of a lucky result, I imagine that IPC are a bit sensitive about this kind of thing.

As everyone else has already said, it should be OK to post provable fact, but conjecture and/or ranting because of personal prejudice against an individual or a business may result in your post disappearing in short order. I'd guess that your post is also likely to disappear - even if only temporarily - in spite of being 100% factual, if somebody's lawyers start making a noise. One of the things that aggravates a libel is a failure to suppress it when it's brought to your attention and I am sure that Kim's First Law of Moderation is to pull a post first and then ask questions: who can blame him?

The trouble is, I want to know other people's opinions about the quality of service they receive. Perhaps the best way of achieving this, in the circumstances, is to turn the concept round and encourage people to post when they get good service. It will soon become apparent if certain names have a tendency not to show up. Naming and shaming should be limited to major blunders or outright criminality, in my view.

Btw, I am much more worried about the concept of SWMBO hi-jacking your ID to ask questions on behalf of her father. Typical queries from my father-in-law would undoubtedly include: "Why did my daughter marry a complete d*ckhead"? and "Why doesn't my son-in-law have any interest in golf"? If I appear to be asking questions like this, please ask Kim to wield the virtual blue pencil. <font color="black"> </font>

 

[NevisTheCat]

Well, over on my climbing forum we have had a long running flaming about poor service in a well known Highland hostelry.

Given the consensus of opinion it appears that the OP has much support in his complaint.

Why not highlight crap service if you receive it, and likewise highlight good service, a company professional in their approach should be rewarded.

 

[boatmike]

Re: Few things to consider

In that case Kim I would like to sue both IPC and Jimi, the case being that he accused me of being a penguin and you let him! There is absolutely no truth in this libellous rumour and the very thought makes my feathers curl....

 

[pessimist]

Re: Few things to consider

[ QUOTE ]
We sit in a tall building with a healthy bank balance which makes us a useful target for anyone that wants to bring us in front of a judge and jury.



[/ QUOTE ]

Oh goody - expect an accusation in the near future.

 

[Sammo]

Truth is there is no truth, not on the internet anyway.
The chap complaining usually has an axe to grind and the one recommending the restaurant can be the proprietors mum, it’s impossible to know
A while ago I came across a blogg that had been started by someone who had allegedly had bad service from alienware computers, as he provided an anonymous reply box I waded in and said that I have one and was happy ect. ect.
4 hours later it was deleted, I was amazed, So I posted another, same again deleted.
So to test it I posted another complaining this time, calling alienware all the names under the sun, pure rant. This was retained.
So to put it further to the test I made up a complete load of bollocks that anyone with half a brain could see through and posted it.
This was it;

To all you RMA`s

I to was sucked in by the hype – when I decided to upgrade my computer I was told “want the best? get Alienware”. So I ordered the mean looking desktop with everything.
From then on it was all downhill.
First they wanted my money up front. What’s up don’t they trust me?
So after 2 days of negotiations I gave them my credit card no. (then didn’t sleep a wink till the day it was delivered).
After 3 days I got a telephone call to verify who I was , everyone knows me!
I ask you does nobody trust anyone anymore.
Then the next mortal blow was when they told me it would take 11 Days. After 14 E-mails and 2 typed letters asking for an explanation I was told that that there were 42 people in sales, 16 in accounting, 2 on the building and the repair man did Tuesdays and Fridays.
As I thought this was fair enough I told they to carry on.
After 13 days – YES 13 DAYS! (mind you I did change the spec three times) they phoned to say It was on Its way, was in Dublin at the moment and would be with me the next morning. I will never no why they couldn’t send it by air from Cork airport direct to Coventry where I live this would have saved at least 4 hours on the journey time.
It arrived next morning, I had been up from 4 am and when it arrived at 7 o’clock there was quite a large gathering of friends and family to see it out of the box.
I must say that if I live till I die I will never again be so devastated as when I discovered that they had sent me an AMERICAN KEYBOARD .
It was all to much, this on top of everything else. I went and curled up in the dog basket.
It was down to my wife to phone Alienware (why do those freephone numbers take so long to connect?) They must have been asking her for details i.e. type and model, as I heard her say “It’s a Green one” then I passed out.
When I came round it was all sorted, my son had been and bought a wireless U/K keyboard, had took the skin off the alienware keyboard and clipped it on. It look’s really not bad.
Things are looking up. I’ll keep you all posted - Tomorrow we switch it on.
............
See what I mean. Complete load of rubbish

After 2 months It`s still on there. I`ve just copied and pasted it over.
Of course the sinister part is if anyone looking to buy one sees this rubbish and believes it.

Truth is there is no truth. Not on the internet anyway.

………………..
note. This might or might not be true.

 

[BrendanS]

Re: Few things to consider

OOh! what a great idea. I hereby formally declare that I'm a ybw forum addict. This will help no end in my legal case against IPC for destroying my life, and my claim of several million quid

 

[Birdseye]

Re: Few things to consider

I'm not sure that I would be interested in a baldly stated set of proveable facts, since this would hardly paint a useful picture to anyone but a lawyer. And in any case, every business has occasional problems, so one report proves nothing. Particularly since you can never know whether the customer is being reasonable or theoretical.

Personally, I have real difficulty in thinking of a business who hasnt given me reasonable service.

 

[dralex]

Thanks for the replies- I won't name the company, but they are a marine electronics installation company in the South West. I arranged for somebody to come and advise me and give me a quote for installing a new Plotter/Radar display in the cockpit of my boat. I wanted a specialist quote for installation to save me the hassle of trial and error, mistakes and frustration that I could ( and couldn't) forsee installing it on the binnacle. They arranged to come to the boat, spent an hour not really doing anything apart from basically saying all they'd do is connect the wires- ( I'd have to get somebody else to do the fitting). They also wouldn't give me a quote because they're boss would also have to come and verify the work needed at another time.

That was all fine and I thought I'd just leave it. Then a bill (not quote) came for installing the plotter. I rang head office- sorry sir, not our problem. AFter several phone calls I eventually spoke to the person who came out- the bill was in error, but there may be a charge for coming out to have a look. I asked head office when I was in contact with them if they charged for quotes- the answer was no. He eventually conceded when having to admit that he had actually provided no service and therefore could not charge anything.

I have raised my views before about so called specialists- I feel that a lot of amateur boat owners very often know more than the specialists, usually because we research the chosen field in depth. When I call a specialist, I want them to know more than I do and solve my problems- that is why I'm willing to pay them.

 

[BarryH]

I blame the Americans you know.

 

[peterb]

Re: Frau Bentos

I'm sure the good Frau will be quite happy. About her Mann, I'm not so sure.