Multihull capsizes in RTIR

[farmerdan79]

I didn't think she was close inshore either, it looks a fair depth judging by the angle of the mast preventing her going over completely; what's a container + 3.5 ?!

Quite seriously if this is right about the container, who should be marking or aware of it ? VTS ? QHM ? Trinity House ?

She was quite far out, - most of the fleet passed the island side of her, quite a way from the shallows...

 

[westernman]

Wow - the voice of (probably quite painful) experience

How much sea water did you swallow, and cuts from fast stops on daggerboards and stays, building this expertise

Lots of seawater and a few cuts from the rigging - but nothing too bad. You tend not to notice the cuts until you get back to dry land. A good job there are no man eating sharks around here.

 

[DRsailing]

+1

I am really not sure about commenting on this but as I skippered Scott Bader, I think I have to.

It had been decided some weeks before and then reinforced by the weather forecasts around a week ahead that it would be inappropriate to have anyone who was not able to cope with a long race in moderate or so conditions. There are of course a lot of degrees of disability and it is difficult for anyone to generalise which is why I invited known and specific individuals with appropriate experience.

Although it is often good fun within the discussion forums I think it is a shame that there is an amount of uninformed generalisations and that conclusions are based on assumptions sometimes. I think those who pointed out that the interesting conditions over a number of hours required a high level of concentration as well as physical effort either took part or have experienced similiar before and I thank them for their wisdom.

We had a very experienced crew on board and were fully aware of the potential gusts coming out through Bembridge and of course had already got around and past a lot of yachts through exciting conditions for over 6 hours. We were all happy with the control we had over the yacht. There were at least 3 of us on board to my knowledge that have sailed in worse conditions than this. I have personally instructed on a sail trimming course in F8/9 in the area with only compliments as feedback.

By Bembridge I understand we were leading our class. As mentioned in another post above, a few seconds changed our fortunes along with a lot of others around the course on this particular day.

Appropriate actions had been discussed prior to rounding Bembridge cardinal. Unfortunately the main halyard had been put on the winch normally used by the main sheet as the main halyard jammer had started to slip 200-300m before the capsize. This meant we were unable to ease the main sheet as we wanted to when the gust lifted the wind from around 20kts to nearly 35kts. Cruising cats shouldnt lift hulls, and we normally operate at no more than 5-10 degrees of heel. None of us are exactly sure of all the circumstances. Whatever happened though, it is still my responsibility.

Neither Scott Bader nor our other boat, Verity K take out disabled guests on any trip where forecasts mention F6 or above. Both boats have all the safety equipment required and then some. We have never had any incodents liek this before nor man overboards etc etc.

So hopefully, everyone will understand that we do not take insane risks with disabled or any other guests on board. I am not sure if it needs pointing out that this was not a cruise but a race and is very different to what we do normally.

I note that no-one has criticised Dame Ellen Macarthur's incident where she alledgedly T-boned another yacht on the (very crowded and foggy) start line and dismasted. This was with recovering or recovered teenage cancer victims on board. I don't know the facts and therefore would not be tempted to question her sanity or skills which should be obvious anyway.

I do know it was very difficult to get around boats (trusting or hoping everyone knew the rules of the road), and she may well have been the stand on vessel, even though we are all required to avoid a collision - who knows? The answer of course is only those in the immediate vicinity at the time.

Scott Bader is being refitted at present. Both engines are up and running and the interior is being prep'ed for painting etc. Unfortunately some equipment and posessions were lost including one of two liferafts aboard. i know this was floating nearby but has not been returned which is a shame. If anyone came across any items in that area that they think may have been ours I would be grateful if they made contact with Port Solent (our home port).

I am sorry for the trips we have had to cancel since, and to those dissapointed people of all abilities that were due to sail.

We are very grateful for the donations and offers of help that have assisted us to progress with refitting.

 

[DRsailing]

Just thought I would also mention that I havent heard of cruising cats going over before and I own a 47ft cat. The beg difference is that Scott Bader weighs 5 tons and my weight close to 20tons.

I would happily sail on a cat in preference ot a mono any day but I know those who wouldnt. Depends what type of sailing you are doing, but

Square bunks
lots of space
faster
more stable when cruising(!)

 

[Twister_Ken]

DRSailing. Many thanks for posting. Glad the outcome wasn't terminal for crew or boat. Good luck with the refit.

So, tales of a collision with a submerged container were false?

 

[DRsailing]

DRSailing. Many thanks for posting. Glad the outcome wasn't terminal for crew or boat. Good luck with the refit.

So, tales of a collision with a submerged container were false?

thanks for that. We are really not sure. Apparently the divers thought so as there was a container nearby and we had some damage.

We were on a line seaward of the majority as I wanted space around me having rounded the mark.

One of the guys felt something but it was very difficult to be precise as it all happened very quickly.

I would go and do it all again with the same crew anytime though. We are all ok, had a couple of cuts and bruises etc but otherwise just disbelief.

 

[flaming]

I I note that no-one has criticised Dame Ellen Macarthur's incident where she alledgedly T-boned another yacht on the (very crowded and foggy) start line and dismasted. This was with recovering or recovered teenage cancer victims on board. I don't know the facts and therefore would not be tempted to question her sanity or skills which should be obvious anyway.

First I've heard of it.

I knew Gypsy Moth lost their mizen in a collision, but I thought Dame Ellen retired at the Needles with a sea sick crew?

 

[fireball]

DRSailing - thanks for posting - as normal in most incidents, things happen so fast it's difficult to piece everything together to understand what occurred.
Glad nobody was seriously hurt - and it's certainly given the crew an experience they'll not forget! I don't mean that negatively - such incidents without loss of life can be positive...

Hopefully there will be things we can all learn from your accident - it sounds like the main halyard jammer or halyard itself was a minor issue requiring you to compromise another sail control - may I suggest that perhaps when re-fitting, consideration is made on re-routing either the halyard or the sheet to a different set of jammers and so if such a fault occurs again, you could fix it without such a compromise. Of course, you may have already come to such a conclusion yourself ...

 

[DRsailing]

Of course, you may have already come to such a conclusion yourself ...

Certianly have!

 

[DRsailing]

First I've heard of it.

I knew Gypsy Moth lost their mizen in a collision, but I thought Dame Ellen retired at the Needles with a sea sick crew?

Part of my point - I maybe wrong in what I heard and assumed too, but I heard she retired after the incident happened in the lead up to the start.

 

[Twister_Ken]

AFAIK Day Melon retired half way up the first leg coz of sea sickness with crew (of teenage cancer sufferers). Gypsy Moth IV was involved in a prang that resulted in her losing her mizzen.

 

[flaming]

Part of my point - I maybe wrong in what I heard and assumed too, but I heard she retired after the incident happened in the lead up to the start.

Definitely not what I have heard, and to be honest if Ellen had been in a collision I really would have expected to have heard - there are plenty of people who love to kick a sucess, especially in the bars of Cowes and Hamble. What I heard was that she had decided not to continue past hurst because of the young crew on board, some of whom were seasick.

But in any case, it's an interesting argument to bring that up. A collision is easily explained - two boats hit each other - the nature of the problem is obvious.

Seeing your boat upside down was a real shock to many people, and given that cruising multis are not supposed to do that I think it's pretty understandable that people want to know what went wrong.

 

[fireball]

<snip>Seeing your boat upside down was a real shock to many people,

yer - Cats are supposed to land on their feet .... ours always did everytime I did that experiment ... mind you - they tended to skulk off after the second attempt - could only get them back at meal time!!

 

[snowleopard]

Moral - if you want to push a multi, make sure you have a means of releasing sheet(s) quickly. Mine is 2/3 turns on a winch and into a dinghy jammer.

 

[DRsailing]

Thanks Snowleopard ; I think the moral is well and truly tatooed on my forehead now!

Joking apart though - we knew that and were attempting to sort it out. This happened only a short time after we knew we had a problem.

 

[DRsailing]

Definitely not what I have heard, and to be honest if Ellen had been in a collision I really would have expected to have heard - there are plenty of people who love to kick a sucess, especially in the bars of Cowes and Hamble. What I heard was that she had decided not to continue past hurst because of the young crew on board, some of whom were seasick.

ahh - my apologies to Dame Ellen. I had assumed that she was on Lively Lady.

They did well to get that far if they weren't used to lumpy seas. It was an interesting tacking experience going around all those boats in that sea state but Hurst and the bank made it worse of course. It was bliss to get round the Needles, outside Varvassi in our case, and get onto the smoother stuff.

 

[westernman]

Moral - if you want to push a multi, make sure you have a means of releasing sheet(s) quickly. Mine is 2/3 turns on a winch and into a dinghy jammer.

On my catamaran, I always just held the mainsheet in my hand. It still did not stop me doing cartwheels on occasion.

 

[DRsailing]

On my catamaran, I always just held the mainsheet in my hand. It still did not stop me doing cartwheels on occasion.

You wouldn't be able to do that on cruising cats (or any other cruising yacht of any size) without taking most of the skin off your hand. Gloves wouldn't do the trick either - too much weight on it.

 

[Seajet]

So, is the container theory discounted now ?

I ask both out of curiosity re. the capsize, and even more curious to know if there's a nasty steel lump somewhere there, unmarked ?!

 

[DRsailing]

So, is the container theory discounted now ?

I dont think any firm conclusions have been made - one of the guys on board mentioned a jolt. The divers reported a container as I mentioned beforehand and the boat owners are / have dealt with the admin etc.

sorry not to be more help.