Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Seems to be Spirit of Scott Bader, which takes out wheelchair-bound people for sailing experience. Great shame - hope they can get it back together.
Multihull capsizes in RTIR
- Thread starter Twister_Ken
- Start date
Mudisox
Well-known member
Also the owner and helm, Harvey is an extremely talented guy, he performed at speed week a few years ago with the cat, and is well used to extreme conditions - an excellent and deserving result.
Pasarell
Well-known member
Statement about Spirit of Scott Bader
Spirit of Scott Bader sailings cancelled till further notice
In a very exciting Round the Island race on Saturday while leading its class, first of 12 cruising yachts and travelling at 10 to 12 knots, Scott Bader appears to have hit a submerged object and capsized.
None of the crew were injured, but there were a few bruises.
It happened about 500 meters off of Seaview Yacht Club whose RIB was on the scene in a few moments and took the crew to the club house for dry clothes and a cup of tea.
Scott Bader had been sailing for for over 6 hours and was almost in sight of the finish line at Cowes.
After dealing with conditions that made many compeditors retire or seek shelter because of the rough conditions at the Needles and south of the Island, the incident took place in the relative calm of the Solent less than an hour before the end of the race.
Nick from 'Boatability' { http://www.boatability.co.uk/ } immediatly went out and secured Scott Bader whose mast was hitting the bottom stopping her from going right over. Nick called Ruben from RSDivers on the Isle of Wight { http://rsdivers.co.uk/ } who dived down and removed the mast and sails allowing Scott Bader float properly upside down and to be towed to a marker buoy to await recovery to Portsmouth.
Ruben and Baker Trayte ( www.btmarine.co.uk/ } towed the yacht into Clarence Yard where they righted her without any real problems and pumped the water out.... their crane driver is an artist.... .
She was then taken to Wicor Marine where we will thoroughly check her over and tidy her ready for sailing again as soon as possible
Although this was a potentially disasterous incident it is very comforting to know that the safety features and proceedures worked to the point where there were no injuries to the crew or dangers to the rescuers.
Thank you everyone who helped and for the messages of support - I will email again when Scott Bader is back in use.
Mike Wood MBE
Chairman RoRo Sailing Project
Spirit of Scott Bader sailings cancelled till further notice
In a very exciting Round the Island race on Saturday while leading its class, first of 12 cruising yachts and travelling at 10 to 12 knots, Scott Bader appears to have hit a submerged object and capsized.
None of the crew were injured, but there were a few bruises.
It happened about 500 meters off of Seaview Yacht Club whose RIB was on the scene in a few moments and took the crew to the club house for dry clothes and a cup of tea.
Scott Bader had been sailing for for over 6 hours and was almost in sight of the finish line at Cowes.
After dealing with conditions that made many compeditors retire or seek shelter because of the rough conditions at the Needles and south of the Island, the incident took place in the relative calm of the Solent less than an hour before the end of the race.
Nick from 'Boatability' { http://www.boatability.co.uk/ } immediatly went out and secured Scott Bader whose mast was hitting the bottom stopping her from going right over. Nick called Ruben from RSDivers on the Isle of Wight { http://rsdivers.co.uk/ } who dived down and removed the mast and sails allowing Scott Bader float properly upside down and to be towed to a marker buoy to await recovery to Portsmouth.
Ruben and Baker Trayte ( www.btmarine.co.uk/ } towed the yacht into Clarence Yard where they righted her without any real problems and pumped the water out.... their crane driver is an artist.... .
She was then taken to Wicor Marine where we will thoroughly check her over and tidy her ready for sailing again as soon as possible
Although this was a potentially disasterous incident it is very comforting to know that the safety features and proceedures worked to the point where there were no injuries to the crew or dangers to the rescuers.
Thank you everyone who helped and for the messages of support - I will email again when Scott Bader is back in use.
Mike Wood MBE
Chairman RoRo Sailing Project
Giblets
Well-known member
Thanks for the report.
Very impressed that the diver was able to remove the mast & sails underwater whilst the boat was semi-inverted. It's difficult enough trying to do it on dry land & upright!
Very impressed that the diver was able to remove the mast & sails underwater whilst the boat was semi-inverted. It's difficult enough trying to do it on dry land & upright!
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Well done, Ruben and his team. No wonder he has no problem changing my anodes - a walk in the park!
Tintin
Well-known member
So is flying a hull considered dangerous? I ask because last summer I played with a friends Tri and we'd get one out of the water regularly, using uplift under the tramp to help it out.
We were constantly playing the sheet and helm though, so when it did start to go too high (and speed dropped off) we dumped the main a bit.
I got 19kn out of it, and my record has yet to be beaten by the owner or any of his other friends.
Talbot
Active member
Big difference between a cat and a tri. There is also a big difference between a racing cat withan experienced racing crew sailing with a hull kissing the water, and trying to do the samething with a cruising cat with inexperienced crew. If you do this in a racing cat, you will go fast, and occassionally capsize. On a cruising cat it is really bad seamanship as the maximum righting moment for a cat is when the boat is upright. The more you lift a hull, the less stability you have.
To do this if you have disabled people onboard means that the sanity of the skipper should be in question.
E39mad
Well-known member
Conflicting reports so far then - one states it carried on healing before capsizing and the other states hit a submerged object.
Difficult to know which but I certainly would not fly a hull in a largish "cruising" cat and would have someone knowledgable playing that mainsheet as well as the wheel in those conditions to prevent any possibility - looks like a powerful mainsail from the pics.
Difficult to know which but I certainly would not fly a hull in a largish "cruising" cat and would have someone knowledgable playing that mainsheet as well as the wheel in those conditions to prevent any possibility - looks like a powerful mainsail from the pics.
r_h
Active member
We were about 4-500m away, so too distant to see a submerged object - all we saw was the heeling, with the windward hull gradually flying ever higher.
It's a different matter on a modern tri, compared to a cruising cat. The tri's two amas are generally at a higher level than the centre hull, so one will (almost) always be flying. Your point about the mainsheet, though, is important for any multihull, especially in breezy or gusty conditions.
It's a different matter on a modern tri, compared to a cruising cat. The tri's two amas are generally at a higher level than the centre hull, so one will (almost) always be flying. Your point about the mainsheet, though, is important for any multihull, especially in breezy or gusty conditions.
fergie_mac66
Active member
Big difference between a cat and a tri. There is also a big difference between a racing cat withan experienced racing crew sailing with a hull kissing the water, and trying to do the samething with a cruising cat with inexperienced crew. If you do this in a racing cat, you will go fast, and occassionally capsize. On a cruising cat it is really bad seamanship as the maximum righting moment for a cat is when the boat is upright. The more you lift a hull, the less stability you have.
To do this if you have disabled people onboard means that the sanity of the skipper should be in question.
+1
bairdag
New member
These pictures explain the trimaran capsize http://www.cowesonline.com/d/Round the Island Race Lge.mov
For anyone who sails a multihull, it was a racing incident. The pictures clearly demonstrate the reasons it happened. Probably wouldn't have happened in cruising mode.
"To finish first, first you must finish" has always helped me when racing multihulls. In a J-boat, this would have been a broach, with people overboard - and a real risk of injury from a gybe. Be objective when you assess the risks; multihulls are perfectly safe compared to monohulls,matched boat for boat. For speed and comfort they do not even bear comparison.
For anyone who sails a multihull, it was a racing incident. The pictures clearly demonstrate the reasons it happened. Probably wouldn't have happened in cruising mode.
"To finish first, first you must finish" has always helped me when racing multihulls. In a J-boat, this would have been a broach, with people overboard - and a real risk of injury from a gybe. Be objective when you assess the risks; multihulls are perfectly safe compared to monohulls,matched boat for boat. For speed and comfort they do not even bear comparison.
Boomshanka
New member
Easy to say from the comfort of my office, but it seems they didn't dump the main... would that have made a difference
fireball
New member
Well in a monohull dinghy I would be shouting "ease ease Ease!" to the crew whilst bearing away and dumping main - oh and hiking hard! But that's somewhat different as the bow is designed to lift and ride over the waves.
Seajet
...
I take it there were no people in wheelchairs on the cat' at the time ?
Some major questions to be asked here, and I do NOT mean blame on anyone's part ( though I can't help thinking a few things ); the whole idea of taking wheelchair users in this or any other type of sailing yacht would seem pretty well torpedoed to me, at least for the moment - insurers will probably run & hide for a start...
Some major questions to be asked here, and I do NOT mean blame on anyone's part ( though I can't help thinking a few things ); the whole idea of taking wheelchair users in this or any other type of sailing yacht would seem pretty well torpedoed to me, at least for the moment - insurers will probably run & hide for a start...
snowleopard
Active member
Easy to say from the comfort of my office, but it seems they didn't dump the main... would that have made a difference
No, for two reasons: firstly the kite was far bigger so the main would make very little difference. Secondly easing at that point of sailing would bring it up against the shrouds, still full of wind. Notice that the first sign of trouble was burying the bow of the lee float. The safe solution would have been to reduce sail by about 50% but if you're racing....
The trouble with over-pressing a multi is that everything seems fine until you cross that fine line then it all goes very wrong very quickly. You just don't get the warning that you do in a mono.
Adonnante
New member
I assume you are refering to the series of photo's above and think its worth pointing out that the 'cat' in question is a tri, 3 hulls not two. Its 28' long and not 35' of the cat Spirit of Scott Bader which is modified to enable disabled sailors, not always in wheelchairs to enjoy the thrill of sailing. According to all accounts I've seen all the crews involved were rescued safely. Are accidents in adventure sports that unusual?
Adonnante
New member
I agree with the general details Chris but on Adonnante in those conditions (assuming for the moment we are ever to fly a spinnaker in 28kn of wind) the spinnaker would be handled by someone who was capable of dumping it immediately they saw the lee bow dipping. I can see no evidence of that occuring here. But there again I wasn't there!
Peter.
Seajet
...
I'm referring to photo's of a catamaran nearly inverted with the mast on the seabed preventing complete inversion.
In answer to your question, I would think this rather more of an 'adventure' than envisaged, and potential horrors like this are not only rare, it's the first time I've ever seen such a thing.
I have owned a cat', albeit a Dart 18, so am aware of the different way of doing things compared to a monohull.
My club specialises in providing dinghy sailing in various types for people with all sorts of disabilities, either solo or skippered as suits.
I have also sailed aboard square riggers which cater for wheelchair users; 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I'd suggest something was rather wrong with the plan here, wheelchair users or not, and it is likely to have far reaching effects.
In answer to your question, I would think this rather more of an 'adventure' than envisaged, and potential horrors like this are not only rare, it's the first time I've ever seen such a thing.
I have owned a cat', albeit a Dart 18, so am aware of the different way of doing things compared to a monohull.
My club specialises in providing dinghy sailing in various types for people with all sorts of disabilities, either solo or skippered as suits.
I have also sailed aboard square riggers which cater for wheelchair users; 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I'd suggest something was rather wrong with the plan here, wheelchair users or not, and it is likely to have far reaching effects.
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Adonnante
New member
but I'd suggest something was rather wrong with the plan here, wheelchair users or not, and it is likely to have far reaching effects.[/QUOTE]
That is clearly the case, however assuming that the crew were adult and understood the risks they were taking I see no reason why they shouldn't explore their limits the same as the able bodied crew on the tri. I have taught the disabled and wherever possible they want to be treated the same as the rest of us. However I also worry about the consequences of this incident.
Peter.
That is clearly the case, however assuming that the crew were adult and understood the risks they were taking I see no reason why they shouldn't explore their limits the same as the able bodied crew on the tri. I have taught the disabled and wherever possible they want to be treated the same as the rest of us. However I also worry about the consequences of this incident.
Peter.
dslittle
Well-known member
Depending on your definition of 'relatively calm' I think that I missed it !!! It as carnage out there as evidenced by the number of Maydays going out. Unfortunately we were one of the retirees (charter boat sails...) and I take my hat off to all of those who finished.