Motor boat for the French Canals?

zikzik

zikzik

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Originally placed in the Motor Boat forum.

I sail a Contessa 26 and would like to experience the French Canals, and maybe the Thames at some time.

A French friend has informed me his father - a sailer turned motor boater, now getting on apparently - is selling his Beneteau Antares 8.60. 87 vintage. It is French registered and moored in a marina in the Gironde, near Royan, so a pretty good location to start from.

I know nothing about these so need help with the following:

It has 2 x Volvo Tam30 engines. 110hp each! They have recently been reconditioned., as has the boat generally. Will it go too fast at tick over for the low canal speed limits of 8kph? Or will they (or one of them at a time I guess) overheat if run that slowly? I don't think these engines have turbo's, but need to check.

And. Am I just dreaming to think I can buy a mates known, good boat of suitable dimensions at, say £20k, use it for 3-5 years on and off traversing these canals, both in France and perhaps later the Thames, then sell it for £10-£15k. Condition is probably more relevant to value than age?

I can see the advantage of draft and lack of a mast,

I look forward to getting some guidance.
 
I spent a season working as deckhand / engineer on a 38m Hotel Barge in Burgundy.

Frankly yes it does sound way overpowered !

The only ' upmarket speedboat ' I saw in my time was British, trying to run on one engine and it looked like a struggle for the boat and owner.

The boat you're looking at might be fine, and there are times a bit of power is handy, if you're thinking of using her at sea or in estuaries etc as well, then I'd say investigate an economical, quiet crawler engine ( as well ? ) for true canal stretches ; if you're only thinking of canal use my guess is it's not on.

I must point out I don't know the boat you mention, just going by the 2 X 110hp...

As I say not knowing the boat, as a guestimate a 4 stroke 10-15hp strikes me as about right for a crawler ( think of the stealth engine on MTB's ! ) - it would need good steering, throttle & gear linkages to hand.

I've always fancied taking my Anderson22 through the canals, an electric outboard would usually do for the true canal bits; I met a Brit couple in a Magyar 7 who to save money put a long lineon, the husband put it over his shoulder and walked along the towpath towing her along; no effort once moving.

I think I'd want 2 things from an engine - quiet operation and as much electrical output as possible ( solar as well ), it gets really hot so if it was possible aircon or at least a good fridge would be a real boon.
 
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pcatterall said:
Small plodder engine best but don't venture onto the Rhone
Click to expand...

Why not?

I've been up/ down the Rohne 5 times, all in boats with small plodder engines (Moody 33 with Thorneycroft 40hp, Westerly Discus with Mercedes 40 hp, Carter 33 with old twin cylinder Volvo).

No problems.

(and friends made it both ways in their Invicta 26 with 8hp Yanmar).
 
NealB said:
Why not?

I've been up/ down the Rohne 5 times, all in boats with small plodder engines (Moody 33 with Thorneycroft 40hp, Westerly Discus with Mercedes 40 hp, Carter 33 with old twin cylinder Volvo).

No problems.

(and friends made it both ways in their Invicta 26 with 8hp Yanmar).
Click to expand...

I guess that I’m thinking that an engine/boat combination designed to plod at 3knots and flat out at 5 would have problems on the Rhone in places running at 5knots
 
When going down the Rhone last year, we met several sailboaters who were really struggling to get upstream and having to put in very long shifts to get to the next marina. One German couple at Valence in a modern yacht with a decent engine had decided to quit their round trip from Berlin via the Danube, black Sea, Bosphorus and Mediterranean and were awaiting road transport to complete their trip.
You need a powerful engine to make headway upstream on the Rhone! We were travelling downstream, with the old Thorneycroft on tickover (mostly) and maintaining an average of around 10kn at which speed we could usually reach the next overnight stop in half a day. (There are not all that many stopover places).
 
Neal,

I dont know if you saw me mention it, but there was a very sad turn of events last year.

A chap had an A22 with windvane the lot, in the Med' where he had a place on shore. Despite the wind vane as I recall she had got there by trailer, and he - retired - had gradually fitted extra kit while living there with plans to film a trip on the Danube.

He got there with his ladyfriend, obviously a long way, but the river was in near spate after heavy rains; they were coping OK until hit by heavy tree trunks damaging the rudder and giving the boat and crew a severe hammering.

I forget all the details right now but he got back home by land - bit of an epic in itself, got his trailer, set off to collect boat - repeat, long trip - broke down, local mafia stepped in and basically stole his trailer.

They had both been through physical and mental hell, last I heard he sold the boat for peanuts to a young Brit ex-marine who was meant to be bringing her back to UK but I've not heard from him.

I feel so sad for them for their retirement dream trip to end like that.

It reinforces everything I've heard about the Rhone and especially Danube though.
 
Thanks guys. I am not planning to go on the Rhone, so should have said where I do, sort of, plan to take it. From its current base in the Garrone, canal lateral to Toulouse then canal du midi down to the med at Agde. Then back up, through Paris and up to the channel. Now the boats engines will work, as around to the Thames estuary and up through London and back to 5 knots or whatever.

So a pair of turbo engines, even if running one at a time, are surely going to either overheat at constant low revs, or induce wear through reduced lubrication of the turbos in the speed restricted canals.
Maybe my Contessa 26 would be better? Just more cramped!
 
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Many a true word said in jest !

As well as the couple I mentioned in the Magyar 7 metre with the husband towing via a line to the towpath, I met a young Brit couple very happily livining on a Hurley 18, which made my A22 seem as spacious as the Albert Hall but they had it worked out.

Both boats were well on their ay and as far as I know got to the Med'.

You have read ' Narrow Dog to Carcassone ' haven't you ? :)

Watch your draught with the C26 but I think you'd be fine.

For info the 38m barge I was on had 68hp ( but huge torque & prop ) v slow revving, 33 turns lock to lock on the wheel to give mechanical advantage if the rudder was in silt, and steered like a tea trolley in the open, but in close quarters was OK due to water cushion effect; at locks & small bridges 2" either side ( rubbing plates no fenders ) - the crew leans over beside the helm and sights down the straight side as the barge swings into the lock, ' counting ' the skipper into the lock.

" Plus 4 " means 2" too far from the side the crew is on, if crew is on port going to be hard contact to starboard.

"Plus 2 " means perfect, 2 inches either side.

" Minus 2 " means too far my way, going to hit this side.

If it gets beyond + or - 4, much wheel twhirling !

A pro French skipper wouldn't do this but a good idea for anyone without years of experience.

The deckhand lets the barge go right up within inches of the sill/ gates and there's precious few inches behind for the rudder, a sister hotel barge managed to rest her rudder on the sill in a down lock, reached a very bow down angle then the 280 ton lot shot forward, disimproving both the bow and the lock gates, the guests were rattled around a bit too.

I mention this just so you see it from the other side.

As a plus, most hotel barge crew are British, and a source of beer and above all ICE so it pays to chat.

Edit- meant to say with the Co 26 only snag is you might not be able to get close to some river & canal banks, some gangway like a minimum of a sleeper required; no traffic at night to jostle it dangerously out of position but in some places esp rivers plenty of wash to disturb it in the day - guess how I know ?

At the very least loads of 12v cooling fans essential; our shower tray had a thick crust of mossies or similar, but I didn't get bitten once.

Watch out for floating bollards at locks, they can stick then shoot up; when I was there the crew on another barge was killed by being hit in the head by one of these.

That's all just precauitions though, I had a fabulous time on the canals, even despite some of the people I was stuck with; taking one's own boat through would be a trip of a lifetime.
 
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I met a couple who bought an ex hire boat for peanuts
had spent several years in the canals They carried a moped which they used to collect their car which they parked up every few days.
The car was a small one used for going home 3-4 times a year & towed the moped trailer so when at the car the moped could be towed back to the boat
 
ghostlymoron said:
When going down the Rhone last year, we met several sailboaters who were really struggling to get upstream and having to put in very long shifts to get to the next marina. One German couple at Valence in a modern yacht with a decent engine had decided to quit their round trip from Berlin via the Danube, black Sea, Bosphorus and Mediterranean and were awaiting road transport to complete their trip.
You need a powerful engine to make headway upstream on the Rhone! We were travelling downstream, with the old Thorneycroft on tickover (mostly) and maintaining an average of around 10kn at which speed we could usually reach the next overnight stop in half a day. (There are not all that many stopover places).
Click to expand...

Sure, it can be slow going sometimes. We were overtaken by snails sometimes. Yes, we sometimes put in very long days.

But we enjoyed the adventure, and would love to do it again.
 
Seajet said:
Neal,

I dont know if you saw me mention it, but there was a very sad turn of events last year.

A chap had an A22 with windvane the lot, in the Med' where he had a place on shore. Despite the wind vane as I recall she had got there by trailer, and he - retired - had gradually fitted extra kit while living there with plans to film a trip on the Danube.

He got there with his ladyfriend, obviously a long way, but the river was in near spate after heavy rains; they were coping OK until hit by heavy tree trunks damaging the rudder and giving the boat and crew a severe hammering.

I forget all the details right now but he got back home by land - bit of an epic in itself, got his trailer, set off to collect boat - repeat, long trip - broke down, local mafia stepped in and basically stole his trailer.

They had both been through physical and mental hell, last I heard he sold the boat for peanuts to a young Brit ex-marine who was meant to be bringing her back to UK but I've not heard from him.

I feel so sad for them for their retirement dream trip to end like that.

It reinforces everything I've heard about the Rhone and especially Danube though.
Click to expand...

A sad tale, indeed, Andy. At least it sounds like no-one was hurt.

I don't know the Danube, but it's a different order to the Rhone, nowadays, isn't it (since the Rhone was canalised)?

We've been up and down the Rhone, relatively, without incident, though I'd be very wary of doing it in the winter (let me rephrase that....I wouldn't contemplate in the winter).

The last time we came up was in Ocotober 2002 (in the Carter 33). We were in a hurry, so took just over two weeks (Pt St Louis to Le Havre), much of it during torrential rain and strong winds. It was hard going (just two of us). We started at dawn, and travelled all day every day (no breaks except at night) till at least dusk, and stopped wherever we could (someone mentioned 'marinas'...the only we used was in Avignon).

I'd recommend a (much) more leisurely trip, perferably in the summer, but it can be done in slow boats. The really fast running sections are very localised, so it's a matter of sniffing around to find the slower parts. They are also often just downstream of the locks, so we generally made surprisingly good progress against the stream for most of the trip, but, boy, it was slow actually covering the last mile or so to the locks.
 
Neal,

the couple in the Anderson did get hurt, I don't think broken bones, but pretty close, certainly traumatised; they took a real hammering with big trees coming downstream like battering rams as soon as they grabbed a jetty - and we're talking about people getting on a bit in leisurely retirement, the experiences described to me sounded more than a bit awkward for the SBS !

In hindsight they shouldn't have been there of course, but I don't know the trip well enough to judge the options.

Apart from a steel boat - at that maybe ice reinforced - with big engines, possibly bow thruster, it's difficult to see what would be ideal in those conditions, even more difficult to see the attraction.

My personal solution is to keep reminding myself ' sailing is for fun ', and I reckon I can quite happily shuffle off this mortal coil without having seen the poxy Danube !
 
zikzik said:
Thanks guys. I am not planning to go on the Rhone, so should have said where I do, sort of, plan to take it. From its current base in the Garrone, canal lateral to Toulouse then canal du midi down to the med at Agde. Then back up, through Paris and up to the channel. Now the boats engines will work, as around to the Thames estuary and up through London and back to 5 knots or whatever.

So a pair of turbo engines, even if running one at a time, are surely going to either overheat at constant low revs, or induce wear through reduced lubrication of the turbos in the speed restricted canals.
Maybe my Contessa 26 would be better? Just more cramped!
Click to expand...

Not really a suitable boat. It was designed for coastal work - dashing out for a spot of fishing then back for tea. short on accommodation and the engines will not like slow running.

There is not an ideal boat if you want to then cross the channel reliably. Canal work needs a displacement hull and a slow revving single engine, preferably with the prop set behind a keel. Look at the boats actually used on the canals permanently to see how different they are from the boat you are suggesting. Many people do traverse the canals in sailing or motor sailing boats, but usually north south on the way to the Med as the other way, particularly in the spring/summer is hard work against the flow in the Rhone.

There are height and draft restrictions which also limit the types of boats that can use the canals and you will find that the modern boats designed for such usage are usually shallow draft, low coachroof, relatively narrow beam and have steel hulls, although the hire boats in smaller sizes are usually GRP. By their nature the designs do not make good sea boats so may not be suitable for crossing the channel.
 
zikzik,

the book ' Narrow dog To Carcassone ', while most certainly not a pilot book, does accidentally give quite a lot of real info, and in the meantime is a very funny enjoyable read.

Getting a boat to do the canals and the open sea is tricky, a good sailing boat like yours will do the canals easily but sadly you woudn't be able to whip up the mast for those tempting long stretches of canal with flat water and a beam reach ! It is of course illegal to do anything like that.

I must admit if it was only for a short time I'd much rather put up with the confines of a seagoing shape than be trapped by a canal only tub; I met a couple of young yachtmasters who'd thought they were bionic so took a 38m Luxmotor steel Dutch motor barge across rhe Channel; one showed me the scrape marks where the lamps & paintings had described a 90 degree arc on the bulkheads, 45 each way, " I've never been so frightened in my life, we thought ' this is it ! "

The Luxmotor is the epitome of seaworthiness compared to the things they hire out to the Swiss punters in southern Burgundy though. You can tell they're Swiss by the SWISS FLAG the size of HMS Victory's main course, somewhere beneath which is a rectangular sort of houseboat apparently propelled by telepathy only , as when our 280 ton barge came around a corner they all seemed to sit still in the middle of the way then go into ' mindless chicken ' mode and crash into the banks.

Taking one of those across the Channel really would be a game bet, but if I was being chased by Nazis at Dunkirk it would suddenly look like a 'J' Class !

Good luck, keep looking.
 
Thanks Tranona. That is the clearest description of the boat, and more or less what I guessed.

I will find the book Seajet. Thanks for the other info as well. Lacking this time in superlatives about A22's. Though you managed to fit a few plugs in here and there :)

Apart from a smallish (4.7m) Zodiac rib, I have never even been on a motor boat of this type, nor considered one for the French canals, which I have read the numerous articles written and would like to do. It came up due to my French friend telling me his 80 year old dad has decided to sell this boat and devote his time to his dogs..... and his plane! Sitting in an ideal location to do just that.

Tranona is spot on. The accommodation is not ideal for the canals, but manageable. It's the two big engines, possibly with turbo's, that really bother me. It is also offered at 28,000 euros, so not a bargain.

I plan anyway to sail my Co26 to the Morbihan next summer. I think the canals will have to wait a while.
 
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I looked into doing something similar and decided that I would want steel for the bumps and dings, an engine that would give me hull speed into wind then a bit and finally something that stayed within the french air draft limits.

Something like this http://www.french-waterways.com/for_sale/caroline/

I would take that cross channel on a good forecast.
 
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