More towing questions

[prv]

Inspired by the other towing thread, but not wanting to drift it, I have a few more questions on the convoluted laws about towing. Not boats, specifically, but I'm sure there are people here who know.

I passed a normal car test in 1999. My license says on it B, B1, and fkp.

I have a 2006 3-door Freelander, with a towbar (I assume an approved type).

What can I and can't I tow? Trailers? A caravan? How big a boat?

Separately, I have a mate with an inboard-engined speedboat on a trailer. He tows it behind one of several large pickup-type vehicles (L200, Navara, etc). Nobody really knows what the boat weighs, but he estimates about a tonne for boat and trailer. The trailer is single-axle and unbraked (not clear whether it had brakes which have been removed, or never had them). In practice it seems stable enough behind a large tow vehicle, but is it legal? He's the same age as me so presumably same type of license.

Would I be legal if I borrowed his boat and trailer and towed it behind my Freelander?

Cheers,

Pete

 

[Croak]

No not legal,if it is a tonne unbraked Max is 750kg

 

[colingr]

Good place to start

https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car

 

[Redshank Evo26]

Inspired by the other towing thread, but not wanting to drift it, I have a few more questions on the convoluted laws about towing. Not boats, specifically, but I'm sure there are people here who know.

I passed a normal car test in 1999. My license says on it B, B1, and fkp.

I have a 2006 3-door Freelander, with a towbar (I assume an approved type).

What can I and can't I tow? Trailers? A caravan? How big a boat?

Separately, I have a mate with an inboard-engined speedboat on a trailer. He tows it behind one of several large pickup-type vehicles (L200, Navara, etc). Nobody really knows what the boat weighs, but he estimates about a tonne for boat and trailer. The trailer is single-axle and unbraked (not clear whether it had brakes which have been removed, or never had them). In practice it seems stable enough behind a large tow vehicle, but is it legal? He's the same age as me so presumably same type of license.

Would I be legal if I borrowed his boat and trailer and towed it behind my Freelander?

Cheers,

Pete

Simple one first!

The maximum for an unbraked trailer is 750kg, so your mates speed boat on its trailer is more than likely not legal, certainly if it does weigh 1000kg.

My understanding of the current law is that you can tow an unbraked trailer up to 750kg or a braked trailer as long as the all up weight of tow car and trailer do not exceed 3500kg. The weight of the trailer must not exceed the weight of the tow car.

I have CE1 with restriction 107, which allows me a total all up weight of 8500kg.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

As a by-the-way I took my Wayfarer to a weigh bridge so that I had a document in the car that showed the weight of the boat. At that time I had an old VW Golf and the Wayfarer dwarfed it, so it looked out of sorts (I was OK legally). If you were taking your friends boat for an extended tour, or to Europe, it may worthwhile doing this. It was something I read on here that you now must know the weight if asked.

 

[prv]

If you were taking your friends boat for an extended tour, or to Europe, it may worthwhile doing this.

I have no intention of towing the rotten old death-trap anywhere

He has mooted the suggestion though of borrowing his parents' caravan and taking that and the boat away somewhere, one behind each of our cars. In that case I think I'd prefer to be the one with the caravan, which should at least be braked.

Pete

 

[Cloven]

See post #11 on two bar thread.

 

[Lakesailor]

a braked trailer as long as the all up weight of tow car and trailer do not exceed 3500kg. The weight of the trailer must not exceed the weight of the tow car.

Not the case. My car has a manufacturer's Maximum Towable Mass which is on the V5 of 2800 kgs. It's on the second page in paragraph 4. Section 0.
The vehicle has a Revenue Weight of 1980 kgs and a Maximum Permissible Mass of 2520 kgs. It's all there on the V5.

The Maximum towing weight for unbraked trailers is 750 kgs as you say. However the manufacturer may have homologated your vehicle for a lower weight.
My Suzuki Grand Vitara 3 door could only tow an unbraked trailer of 550 kgs. Many saloons will have a lower weight.
Additionally, the trailer may have a lower payload than the boat it is carrying. For instance the unbraked trailer which may weigh 150kgs would only be able to carry a payload of 600kgs, Total 750 kgs.

This relates only to the vehicle it is likely that a licence holder who has a licence after 1996 will only be able to tow an unbraked trailer of not more than 750 kgs. (Like anyone else) or a braked trailer as long as the total mass of the outfit is not more than 3500 kgs (which will inlcude any payload in the tow vehicle). Your caravan should be OK. If a trailer is fitted with brakes they must work.

 

[prv]

Not the case. My car has a manufacturer's Maximum Towable Mass which is on the V5 of 2800 kgs. It's on the second page in paragraph 4. Section 0.

This is why I posted the year and model of car - basically I was hoping someone would do the hard work for me and decode the muddle of regulation to a precise set of figures for me and my vehicle

I'd expect the Freelander to have a fairly good towing capability.

Pete

 

[Lakesailor]

Then looking in your V5 will tell you. Sorry, I can't do that for you.

 

[Redshank Evo26]

Cat B entitles you to drive "Vehicles up to 3,500kg Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) and up to 8 passenger seats with trailer up to 750kg; trailers over 750kg if combined weight of vehicle and trailer isn’t over 3,500kg and the fully-loaded trailer doesn’t weigh more than the unladen vehicle"

The cars hand book tells you the maximum trailer weight and the (MAM) can be found on the chassis plate if it is not on your log book (which it isnt for my Alhambra, I just checked!).

 

[prv]

Then looking in your V5 will tell you. Sorry, I can't do that for you.

Interestingly, it lists a "Revenue weight" and "Max permissible mass" both of 2505kg. I'm not sure what that exactly means. "Mass in service" is 1693.

Trailers is 2000kg braked or 750kg unbraked.

Pete

 

[Redshank Evo26]

Well there you go then 2000kg braked trailer, that would be one monster caravan!

Actually its 1693kg for you, because you cant exceed the unladen car weight. Still a B*****y great cravan!

 

[prv]

Actually its 1693kg for you, because you cant exceed the unladen car weight.

Except that Lakesailor has already pointed out that that's incorrect. But also I can't have more than 3500 total for car and trailer, but which weights actually apply for this calculation?

The whole thing's a bloody mess.

Pete

 

[Redshank Evo26]

Except that Lakesailor has already pointed out that that's incorrect. But also I can't have more than 3500 total for car and trailer, but which weights actually apply for this calculation?

The whole thing's a bloody mess.

Pete

This is what your licence entitles you to AS A MAXIMUM

"Vehicles up to 3,500kg Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) and up to 8 passenger seats with trailer up to 750kg; trailers over 750kg if combined weight of vehicle and trailer isn’t over 3,500kg and the fully-loaded trailer doesn’t weigh more than the unladen vehicle"

So in theory it could be 1807kg, but your licence does not allow you to exceed the vehicles unladen weight, which is 1693kg, so 1693kg is the limit.

What ever anyone else tells you, that is what the current rules say, for your licence.

That is copied and pasted from here, for a licence gained after 1997 https://www.gov.uk/old-driving-licence-categories

 

[Avocet]

Interestingly, it lists a "Revenue weight" and "Max permissible mass" both of 2505kg. I'm not sure what that exactly means. "Mass in service" is 1693.

Trailers is 2000kg braked or 750kg unbraked.

Pete

Be careful going on the information on the V5C. It's frequently wrong (or in the wrong place)! The "Mass in Service" is what DVLA calls "Mass in Running Order" - which is the empty vehicle with a 90% full fuel tank and a 75kg driver in it. The "Revenue weight" doesn't apply unless it's a goods vehicle. Heaven knows what they've put in there! The "Max Permissible Mass" is the most that the fully-laden vehicle is allowed to weigh. You nee to find the "VIN plate" or "chassis plate" on your vehicle. Usually a pressed aluminium plate or sticky label under the bonnet somewhere or on one of the door pillars. It will have the 17 character Vehicle Identity Number (VIN) on it, followed by a type approval number (usually starting with a lower case letter "e"). There are then going to be a group of four weights. The first will be the Maximum Permissible Weight. That's the most the fully-laden vehicle is allowed to weigh (and I'd trust the figure on the VIN plate better than anything on the V5C). The second will be the Gross train Weight (the most the vehicle PLUS TRAILER is allowed to weigh at any moment in time). The other two are maximum permitted front and rear axle weights. NONE of this gives you the maximum weight of trailer the vehicle can tow though. For that, you need either the handbook, the European "Certificate of Conformity" or a call to Landrover with your VIN handy.

 

[Redshank Evo26]

Quote "NONE of this gives you the maximum weight of trailer the vehicle can tow though. For that, you need either the handbook, the European "Certificate of Conformity" or a call to Landrover with your VIN handy." Quote

Avocet, you are quite right and all of this would apply to me, having passed my test in 1983. However the OP passed his test in 1998 and has limits set by his driving license which are BELOW those of this vehicle!

To be fair towing weights have always been a nightmare to get a definitive answer to. At lease now you can get an answer, many of us might not like some of those answers, like the Suzuki which is now only able to tow 400kg unbraked, but at least its a defined answer!

It is all a bit daft, I had a 1999 Range Rover 2.5 TDI, wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding, but it was legally allowed to tow 3500kg!
And why I can potentially drive a vehicle of 8500kg and anyone who took a test after 1997 needs an extra test for that is beyond me!

S

 

[Avocet]

Quote "NONE of this gives you the maximum weight of trailer the vehicle can tow though. For that, you need either the handbook, the European "Certificate of Conformity" or a call to Landrover with your VIN handy." Quote

Avocet, you are quite right and all of this would apply to me, having passed my test in 1983. However the OP passed his test in 1998 and has limits set by his driving license which are BELOW those of this vehicle!

To be fair towing weights have always been a nightmare to get a definitive answer to. At lease now you can get an answer, many of us might not like some of those answers, like the Suzuki which is now only able to tow 400kg unbraked, but at least its a defined answer!

It is all a bit daft, I had a 1999 Range Rover 2.5 TDI, wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding, but it was legally allowed to tow 3500kg!
And why I can potentially drive a vehicle of 8500kg and anyone who took a test after 1997 needs an extra test for that is beyond me!

S

Sorry, yes, should have stressed, this is what his VEHICLE is technically permitted to tow. Driver licensing requirements are a completely separate issue and might "trump" anything the vehicle is capable of. I didn't mention those because they seem to have been adequately covered on here.

 

[Lakesailor]

It's very complex. It shouldn't be this convoluted.
I wonder what source of information the Police or VOSA will use when assessing if an infringement has been made? Will they each use the same information?
The V5 information will be easily available via computer. But is it correct?

 

[David2452]

My understanding of the current law is that you can tow an unbraked trailer up to 750kg or a braked trailer as long as the all up weight of tow car and trailer do not exceed 3500kg. The weight of the trailer must not exceed the weight of the tow car.

I hope not, with its max towing weight my car and trailer combo would be nudging 6 tonnes.