More GPRS queries - UK coverage, costs, viability

[pragmatist]

Sorry to post again but I hope there's someone out there with good news - having read the Vodafone/GPRS thread with horror (poor Grehan) and the oneroam thread too.

HWMBO found a bit about German Vodafone GPRS at €20 pcm and got hopeful. Web research suggests that O2 might cover the areas we need (currently we're UK-tied so this may not be the right place to post this as so many of you are fortunate enough to be able to escape the UK- it's pouring at present you'll be pleased to know if you're somewhere nicer !).

Has anyone any experience of :

1) GPRS coverage on the SW coast of the UK
2) Who offers coverage - and how much data is included - for email, attachments etc
3) Does it work ?
4) What equipment is required ?
5) What does it cost ?

I DO hope someone's going to tell us its all wonderful but I have this horrid feeling .... that they're not.

 

[ChrisE]

You asked about O2 but, contrary to Grehan, and others experience, I have found the Vodafone data service both in the UK and in France very useful but before I go on I'll qualify this by saying that I have a Vodafone High Data contract for my business and it is a business expense that is probably too much of an overhead for the average non-commercial user.

So at the risk of starting the debate again, here goes with a Vodafone answer.

1. GPRS coverage on the SW coast, I have yet to go anywhere, other than middle of Lyme Bay, where I haven't been able to use it. I'm no SW coast expert, though and if it is really important that you have coverage suggest that you look at the Vodafone website which, from memory has a coverage map. 3G coverage is at present limited to high population density areas like within the M25, places like Plymouth might be 3G but I haven't tried it there.
2. What's included: 3G and GPRS data movement, inc email, browsing or whatever you would normally use the Internet for.
3. It works well enough for me to rely upon it for all of my business internet usage when not at my office. This includes on the train, abroad, in the car, and plenty of times on the boat on both sides of the ditch, and on for the land in the States.
4. I'm no expert on equipment, I happen to use a Vodafone Mobile Connect Datacard which plugs into the PCMCIA slot on my laptop.
5. The card cost £150 about a year ago but I beleive that pricies have dropped and depend upon the contract you have, I happen to have a Data High contract which includes up to 150 mB a month for £45 ex VAT. The contract does not inlcude foriegn usage which can be pricey if you transfer lots of data but personally I don't mind paying purely for the convenience of internet access.

 

[pragmatist]

Many thanks for that. We have been looking at the web site and are not sure if we're in the red (good) bit or the pink (not good) bit. We too run a business and so could justify the costs you're talking about although I would blanch at paying half as much again for limited GPRS as opposed to 2Mbps symmetrical broadband with no cap - but I suppose I wouldn't need to dig the trench to get it ( as we did for the office !) .

However, cheered to discover that it works, including roaming for you. I'd be interested to know which division of Vodafone (or shop or whatever) you dealt with as Grehan's comments about shop staff who haven't got a clue proved very true when we were first getting data connections over mobile phone.

Thanks
Penny

 

[TonyMS]

I use Vodaphone on an obsolete minimum contract (Leisure 20). I've found GPRS works fine with my Ericsson T68i in Devon, Cornwall, and the Scilly Isles, but not the CI.

Expense for email without attachments and text-only weather forecasts is negligible.

I only use it in the summer. Typically, I find Vodaphone have screwed up my access when I try it in April, and I have to get it re-enabled.

Tony

 

[Oldhand]

GPRS with Vodafone is fine in Poole but haven't tried the West Country yet.

All you need is a GPRS enabled 'phone with a data lead to a PC and Vodafone's Connect Me software. Took a bit of time to get it working but its fine.

 

[pandroid]

The comments about shop staff knowledge seem to be pretty well founded. Its the Dixons syndrome with many outlets being franchises. A far better bet is to get through to the support staff on the phone, who do tend to know what they are doing (or more particularly can put you on to someone who can). They'll ring you back if you dont fancy hanging on. (Obviously this option is a bit limited in non English speaking countries, but some networks spot that you have a UK mobile and put you through to a UK operator)

Its worth saying that its also worth haggling. If you contact the Telco (e.g. Vodafone) directly (telephone sales) they will usually offer a better deal than is available in the shops (even their own shops). I'm currently paying half the published monthly line rental for my plan. Threatening to swap telcos usually brings out the best in them.

Personally, I found the Vodafone ConnectMe software appalling and dropped it quickly. You dont actually need any software on the PC, just set it up as though it was a modem. Also, wired phones are rare these days, with bluetooth being the modern equivalent, and you can get a little dongle for the PC from maplin (about £15) to get the two to talk together. With XP, this doesnt need any software either. I really would steer clear of the nasty datacard unless you do a lot of business travelling.

 

[Abigail]

As an alternative solution - for business purposes I use Orange GPRS. I have rarely had much problems with the coverage. I have a business contract which gives me unlimited mb for £45 a month - though I fear that contract may be obsolete now!

I use an Apple for non-boat stuff and only Orange supports apple connectivity. The laptop has integral bluetooth (as does the I think the Sony Vaio, which wasn't out when I set up the biz) so I can do the internet/email thing with just phone and laptop, no wires.

The laptop also has an integral wifi connection (called airport by apple) which allows all those connections when the networks exist. Mostly though, I find, that wifi hotspots are so expensive it's cheaper to use the GPRS and phone. The only exception is that Orange impose an (arbitrary and annoying) limit of 2mb per item, so if eg I need to download or send photos the phone can't hack it.

On our home pontoon at the moment we also have a phone line and broadband. We reckon that if you are going to be based somewhere for 6 months, then this is a worthwhile investment, but again this is primiarly is business calculation.

My partner uses vodaphone and GPRS with her laptop and it has been a total pain in the a**e, including needing adidtional dongles and stuff and never working very reliably ...

HTH and good luck with the maze!

 

[Swagman]

I purchased a T-Mobile GPRS card in 2004 for my laptop.
Card cost circa £150 and I chose an airtime fixed charge of £40 per month with 'unlimited but fairplay' volume of data also from T-Mobile.
I checked to ensure £40 was for global useage and not just limited to the UK - and was assured it was.

We started Solent based and used it there, thereafter when in Plymouth, Falmouth, and even 15 miles offshore from Falmouth heading off to cross Biscay!

Pleased to see we picked up a Spanish provider again 20 miles off from Finsterre, and thereafter had uninterrupted access down coast of Spain / Portugal / Spain again to Gibraltar through a variety of providers that T-Mobile had obviously done deals with.

We accessed both emails and web most days for weather etc - had other yachts as company in ports also using it to check own emails via Hotmail etc. I found I stopped worrying about how long I was on line or complexity of web downloads, and so whilst I suspect I must have been close to the limit at times, it always worked for me, and always costs just £40 per month.

I still have this service and I will be using it again on a repeat of that trip in May 05.

Hope this info helps.
JOHN

 

[Oldhand]

When I set up our GPRS 'phone as a modem, it would only connect as a GSM 'phone with all data "calls" being charged on a time basis and not on an amount of data transferred basis. I found I had to use "Connect Me" software to get the 'phone to communicate on the GPRS system. Are you sure you are using GPRS when just setting it up as a modem? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[pandroid]

I meant set it up as a new 'dial-up connection' (The modem is installed when you connect the phone to the PC)

To connect to GPRS you just dial *99# (username web, password web). Thats all the connectme software does underneath.

 

[dart]

If you want GPRS and UK and PAYG you can get it with Orange. I have been using Orange PAYG GPRS for a while and it seems to work jolly well. Being PAYG if you get alternate access (eg wifi, libraty, cafe, home) it costs you nothing. Its not dead cheap, about 0.3p a K (from memory).

This site is very useful for setting up your GPRS phone:
FileSaveSs

 

[MedMan]

Ivan. I am very interested in this too, but your statement is still slightly confusing as written. I think I have understood, but please correct me if I am wrong.

By 'set up a new dial-up connection' I believe you are referring to what to do on your computer - not what to do on your phone. As far as your computer is concerned, it is dialling a number just like any other dial-up connection. The number just happens to be the GPRS Service Request Code *99#

However, though the computer may think of this as just another dial-up connection, the Mobile Network recognises *99# as a Service Request Code and responds by connecting you direct to the Internet through their GPRS Gateway.

Is that a correct interpretation of what you are saying?

 

[Ships_Cat]

I agree with what I think you are saying, the easiest way is to just set it up as a dialup connection in Control Panel>Network Connections with the *99# number.

It had occurred to me that with the people saying they are getting charged for time (and I think even some sense earlier said in a post somewhere of dialling ones ISP) whether some are actually accidently, without realising it, using a data connection instead of GPRS?

I have used a conventional handheld phone and, on the boat, a fixed cellular terminal (cellular phone in a black box with computer connectivity plus mimics land line so you can also just plug standard phones, faxs and other ordinary peripherals into it) for GPRS for several years and have not had a moments problem - works just like is supposed to.

I am not in the EU though, but I find it very difficult to accept that the EU or any other sophisticated countries would be any different. And indeed seems from some posts that some are able to set themselves up with no problems which perhaps raises the possibility of "finger problems" for some of the others.

John

 

[pandroid]

Yes, you're right. (Danger of using terms in too many ways).

Actually, as I'm sure you know, GPRS is just a method of carrying the data (Its main use is for sending pictures to one another) Strictly speaking, what we are talking about is 'accessing the Internet using GPRS' (as opposed to 'accessing the Internet using GSM', which is what happens when you dial your UK ISP). The *99# number is, in effect, Vodafone's (or any other telcos) local ISP number.

Its the phone that recognises that you want to 'dial' via GPRS, and to do that you have to have a 'profile' loaded into it. This is either set up for you or the telco will text you a profile which you can store.

The great advantage is that the number is universal - i.e. the same number works for the whole of Europe, for any network. (although there can be problems with profiles). The downside is that, despite being, for the telco, a 'local' call, if you have a UK mobile, they still charge you 'foreign' rates (This is true for 'local' voice calls too).

Universally, data rates are cheaper if you access the network via your 'home' company (true for the UK too) Hence the advantage for going local PAYG. Its the same number (*99#) but a different profile (actually a different Access Point Name, which is hidden in the phone), and hence you only get charged data rates as though you were a local. Up till recently, GPRS data rate charges on PAYG were horrendous, and 12 months local contracts were not attractive, but the data rates have come down due to the advent of picture phones.

At the risk of repeating myself, we wrote all this stuff up here

 

[Grehan]

I want to make it quite clear, Ships_Cat, that I have been using computers full time and intensively since about 1985 (Osborne cp/m, Wordstar and Supercalc) so I am not especially half-witted or dumb-fingered - no more than any normal human being anyway.
My GPRS equipment consisted of a Vodafone mobile connect PCMCIA card plugged into my computer. Not a GPRS mobile phone and a wire. There is no way to operate this equipment except by using the *99# procedure and the supplied software. I know. In the months and months of trouble I had with Vodafone UK and Vodafone Spain I looked at every possible option.

The fact of the matter is that the technology is fine. We basically had no problems connecting anywhere (there is another Vodafone-related story behind the instances where there was, but I'll spare you those). And connection speeds are quite acceptable.

The problem relates to the company behind the service. I was consistently mislead and misinformed by Vodafone - quite possibly in good faith because after a short while I asked every Vodafone person to double check what they were telling me - "are you sure?". I repeated back to them what I thought they had said, to be sure I had got it right. No matter, the next person down the line would often tell me that what I had been told was just plain wrong.

Most worryingly - terrifyingly so - were the mistakes on billing. That is, taking money from my bank account, or trying to. At least £1,000 misappropriated over 4 months. That's £250 per month too much, folks. In the end we had to settle for £800+ refund because it was costing us too much (in money, time and stress) to pursue Vodafone UK from the depths of France. The refund came via a Director, who apologised, but within a week of having bought the product we had received our first Vodafone apology - about being misinformed about setting up the software. We even had to have an apology for a completely wrong statement in writing from Vodafone's GPRS Technical Department. That was eventually found to be completely wrong and it related to how GPRS was logged and accounted for.

We were told that there was no 'initiation charge' when one connects to the network. There is. We were eventually told by Vodafone (after 3 months) that in France it costs over £1 every time you connect (using UK Vodafone GPRS). Minimum charge. Automatic. If you have a dicky connection and keep having to reconnect, the charges are racking up. No-one told us this at the outset and as I say I was told in writing by their technical experts that it made no difference whether one made multiple connections during a day or a month, or maintained one connection the whole time. "Just treat it like electricity, you'll be billed for what you use each month" was the stated message.

We were told specifically to switch tariffs, that the problem was the tariff we were on, only to be told that the tariff we had been told to switch to, and had, was actually either more expensive or not available when "roaming". (We always made it clear we were not in the UK). Wrong advice, you see. And we pay for it.

In Spain we never had a bill except on a voice tariff basis (and on other incorrect bases). That was not our mistake. It was their's. Again, as soon as we pointed out this ridiculous error we got an immediate recognition of the fact that it was entirely wrong, an apology and a promise that the situation would be corrected and it would never happen again. But it did.

I am sure that the technical info about GPRS measuring/accounting Med_Man has linked to is absolutely correct. It just doesn't square with how simple human beings in a ginormous company operate in giving advice, information and calculating their bills (there's another story about their inability to add up correctly or apply a VAT percentage correctly, but I'll also spare you those - and I'm not talking about decimal points either).

I am really pleased to see that some people have had good experiences with GPRS. Maybe things have improved since I bought into it in autumn 2003 (although I had a catalogue of problems right up until November 2004, although that was with Vodafone Spain). I am intrigued that PAYG seems to be available for GPRS - I wished again and again that this was so, and asked, and was told that no, the mobile connect contract was the only way. I should also make it clear, on this Liveaboard forum, that my experience relates to using GPRS abroad. I never used it in the UK and bought it specifically to 'go travelling'. Living aboard, we don't have much spare money, so what we get charged is significant. We can't just write it off. Maybe other companies are better than Vodafone. Vodafone Spain were equally as bad as Vodafone UK, if not worse.

To reiterate. The apalling situations were not of our making, not down to us. We were told again and again that the mistake was theirs, and/or that what we had been told previously was wrong, that the problem would be corrected, etc. and that they sincerely apologised.

That ain't a finger problem, my friend, that's corporate ineptitude.

To paraphrase an old English song -

If you knew the hardships we endured, you n'er would Vodafone GPRS again.

 

[MedMan]

Pandroid: I would be most grateful for a bit more information about what you refer to as the 'Profile'. You say it can be sent to you by the Teleco, but does it have to be? What information does a 'Profile' contain? Can a Profile be set up manually? Is it generic for any given Teleco or is some part of it specific to your SIM card?

The reason I am asking is this. I have never used GPRS as my handset is five years old and they didn't have GPRS then. I have bought an unlocked Vodafone Data Card, not because I particularly wanted a datacard, but because at £45 it was the cheapest way to get GPRS capability. I am currently in Turkey and have a Turkcell PAYG SIM card. The lad in the Turkcell office tells me that all their PAYG accounts are GPRS enabled so I am hoping that I can set up my cardphone myself and it will just work - Ho Ho!!!!

I am happy that I know how to set up a DUN setting on my computer but I would like to know more about setting up the Profile on the phone. Any help you can give would be much appreciated.

 

[johnsmith]

I have used a Vodafone GPRS Card Plugged into my laptop for three years. I bought from a company linked to the Daily Telegraph. It was on special offer at £25 but I had to pay for a one year contract. After one year I tried to change the contract and then the trouble started. It turned out thier computer rejected the change of tarrif and Vodafone staff had to calculate the bill using thier brains. Unfortunatley they cant add up and for six months I got crazy bills, direct debit of course.
I believe the PAYG GPRS package is designed for WAP phones. If you want to use your laptop you really need a contract. Mine costs about £30 per month for 25megbytes. I get reasonable reception in Falmouth. Sometines the connection just wont work properley I think its busy.

 

[dart]

Re: GPRS setup

A phone can have several profiles for accessing various GPRS accounts. These have "CID"(connection id) numbers 1, 2, 3, 4 etc and are accessed by dialling *99***1#, *99***2# etc. In fact *99# is just shorthand for *99***1#

Setting up the profiles is specific to your handset. For Turkcell you set
APN: internet
User id: <blank>
IP,DNS: <blank>

So for example if you set up yoir Turkcell stuff in profile/CID 2 you put *99***2# as the phone number in the DUN (Window dial up acccouint info).

Turkcell GPRS, once setup, is(was) fantastic. It works really well and is very cheap. Vodafone, Orange etc should be ashamed of themselves.

FileSaveAs is pretty useful for GPRS (at least in the UK)

If this doesn't help let me know

 

[pandroid]

Re: GPRS setup

All good stuff. However, if his phone is really five years old, its unlikely that its got GPRS capability. Tell us what model the phone is, and we can probably help.

 

[pandroid]

Its true that there were problems with GPRS billing as recently as 2003 (someone posted an link to an article written in 2000 which describes some of the issues) but the telcos have all made some investment and these problems are supposed to have been overcome.

I agree that European mobile charging is (still) a mess, but its better than it used to be, and the options are greater. Unfortunately all technology companies tend to launch things before they are properly sorted out (lets talk about the PDA market- anybody remember the HP journada?) and the customer bears the brunt.

Perhaps its personal. Maybe they just dont like you. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif