More Eberspacher questions

jimbouy

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I’ve managed to pick up an Eberspacher D1LC on ebay at a sensible price. SWMBO is most approving. The job is not high on my list (might get higher if the forecast cold weather arrives) but I’d like to be aware of what I’m going to do so I can be sure that none of my other jobs interfere with the planned install.

Tony’s article in PBO and searches of the archive have been helpful but leave some questions.

I have the model with the rotary control, the wiring to which is very short… I presume there is no problem in lengthening this part of the wiring loom.

I plan to site the unit in my Centaurs stern locker; this would allow easy access and is suitably close for the transom mounted exhaust fitting. What I’m not really clear on is where to draw air in from, both for combustion and for heating. The locker could not be classed as ventilated; the only air being drawn in comes through the holes where the exhaust and bilge pump hoses exit to the engine compartment. It is also used to store oil, grease and spare diesel. Should I consider mounting a mushroom vent so as to allow more fresh air in to the locker and then draw both air intakes from with in the locker? But I would think this is not good practice in case there is an exhaust problem leading to exhaust gases being blown in to the cabin. One thought I have is to take the combustion exhaust out through the transom and use a second skin fitting within the cock pit to draw in combustion air.

Also, whilst I understand why it has been recommended to draw the intake air from an external source to eliminate repeated shut down and restart (and the associated electrical draw) does this then mean that the unit will always run on full power regardless of the setting on the control dial? In fact, by doing this is it likely that one will end up either doing the job of the thermostat manually or do you just open a hatch once the required cabin temp is reached and keep burning the diesel?

By mounting the unit in the stern locker I wondered if the sensible option is to draw the intake air from the foot of the quarter berth and run the warm air ducting to the forward end of the cabin. I would think it would then be a long time before air drawn in to the heater has warmed up enough to cause shut down. But of course I would be recirculating the air.

Also there is no suitable spare fuel take off on the tank… can I tap into the fuel system elsewhere?

Finally, how would one go about adding a timer in the future…. I haven’t studied the schematic in detail (I doubt I’d fully understand it) but I wonder if a simple timer could be added in the loom that goes to the rotary control? Or is this simply asking for a flat battery, seeing as I won’t have shore power.


The panels’ comments and opinions welcomed. (Be gentle)


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Gunfleet

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I'm halfay through installing one - it takes longer than you think. I can answer one question which is that if you have a dial control (ie a rheostat not a thermostatic programmer) you have to take the air for heating from the cabin - otherwise the thing never knows when to stop. The instructions are on espar.com. I'm going to extend my rheostat wiring so the thing will reach into the cabin. I also have to mount the exhaust in the hull side - there's no hope of getting it out to the transom. I'll just have to shove a cork in it while on port tack! I too am interested to see what replies you get. Earlier this year Paul Rossall who posts on here was kind enough to show me his installation. Seeing another one is a big help.

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jimbouy

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John,

As regards time taken. I'm sure it does, but don't all boat jobs take longer than expected.

I have the instructions and agree about taking the air inlet from within the cabin. but there has been talk on this forum of the fact that this then causes the unit to stop and start more often, thus using more amps each time.

Where are you drawing your combustion air from?

Jim

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Gordonmc

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I put a second hand D1LC in last spring and so far its working fine.
I followed the website advice and set up with the combustion air coming from the cabin at floor height. The single outlet is at the other end of the cabin, so I don't think overheating is going to be a problem. The big downer in having the heater sucking air from the cabin is the increased fan noise.
One point to bear in mind is that the ducting for combustion air and outlet should be balanced, ie of the same length or you could get unwanted shut-downs.
My set up has a rotary switch and a timer, which is wired direct to the rotary. This is a basic sort of timer, allowing one hour's operation at a time pre-set anything up to 24 hours before. I have seen these on Ebay, but if you want something more sophisticated you will be into some finer electronics which may mean going back to the processor.
There was a learning curve involved in the installation, the best lesson being to use this forum for advice, not the least in alternatives to expensive Espar materials.
Best of luck with it!


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TonyS

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The best solution to the control question is to discard the rotary control and fit a room stat or room stat with clock that are available from Eberspacher. It will only work however if you have a grey wire from the heater - this was omitted for cost reasons on some models. If you want to extend the loom equally there is no problem. I just found it convenient to use it at the back of the stern cabin.

I had some problems testing my heater in Summer as the temperature in the stern locker reched 30C and turned the heater off.

The heater will start on boost, you can tell by the high frequency clicking of the pump and will then settle down to normal heat output within a few minutes. I have never tried mine on anything but full as it is normally required on a cold morning when the cabin is very cool - as at the weekend. I then leave it on until it is comfortable.

You need an unrestricted air intake supply. This requires a 3" dia unrestricted flow. It is probably best in your case to take the input from the cabin but use the same diameter hose as the output and remember that you also need a good supply of combustion air which will also require an input from outside the locker.

Be very careful with the fuel offtake. If you drill the tank the swarf can cause great problems if it is plastic. Eberspacher normally take theirs through the fuel level sender assembly which has space and can be drilled while outside the tank. Some people take the fuel from the filter but there is the risk that you could take the fuel level too low for the engine and I am not sure if the pump will have sufficient head to suck the fuel if the output is through the top of the tank.

Best of luck

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Gunfleet

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The unit is mounted on the underside of a locker - the floor of the locker can be unscrewed.. It draws combustion air from within the locker - not a problem because it's a 60've vintage boat and the locker front has finger holes, even though it's in the cockpit.. I dunno what I think about the source of heated air. It would be a lot easier not to draw it from within the cabin in terms of pipework (the thing that's taking up all the time) but Eberspacher make such a fuss of it in their instructions, including an extra drawing, I just accepted it. I'd be interested to hear how people respond to your <<does this then mean that the unit will always run on full power regardless of the setting on the control dial? In fact, by doing this is it likely that one will end up either doing the job of the thermostat manually or do you just open a hatch once the required cabin temp is reached and keep burning the diesel?>>. It would be good to hear people's experiences of this.

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jimi

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I suspect its pobably not a problem in Scotland but one advantage in having the ventilation air extracted from the outside, is that in summer the system can be run as a fan circulating fresh air through the cabin.

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jimbouy

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Tony.

thanks for your reply.

I was tempted to look out for the room stat/timer but am not sure of the real advantage as I doubt i could leave it to it's own devices until I have a berth with shorepower.

You've answered one of my big questions, where to draw combustion air. I have already bought one skin fitting from ebay, to use for the exhaust thu the transom. I'm very tempted to have another drawing combustion air in from the cockpit. I would loop both hoses and it would allow me to keep them equal lengths.

Then it's just a question of the fuel.

I don't fancy mucking about with the tank. But I read else where that there's a blanked off spare outlet on the fuel filter.... i'll investigate that.

Many thanks

Jim

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ashley

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One thing i noticed in the reports on installing these is that you'll be helping to eliminate damp by using external air.
When you replace the air, you will be forcing dry hot air into your boat forcing the warm damp air out.

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Gunfleet

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Tokyo Rose speaks

I use a sintered bronze plate in the heads and one inch thick tinned cable connecting it to the backstay, a well known heat sink. As yet I am unable to work mobiles on the beach in Pitcairn - the main reason I installed the heater. I must have a faulty set up. However I have been able to tune in Lord Haw Haw, an antipodean sheep's talking head (at least it said it was in Wellington, what do I know?) and Tokyo Rose. She informs me that the correct thing to say at the start of a judo contest is 'hijimi!' As for heat in the saloon... not a sausage. where do you think I'm going wrong?

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pvb

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Some more answers...

Eberspachers are great units, Jim, and it'll transform your boating in colder weather. A few answers to your questions:

You can extend the wiring for the rheostat switch, but if you're extending it a long way, it'd be best to use heavier gauge wire to minimise any voltage drops.

The intake for the combustion air can be in the locker, and you might need to add a vent to allow air in.

The exhaust needs to be carefully planned. As with an engine exhaust, you need to arrange some sort of gooseneck in the hose so that it's difficult for water to be forced up the exhaust. You may be able to loop the pipe up into the cockpit coamings in some way.

The intake for the heating air on Eberspachers with the rotary control (rather than the thermostat control) needs to be in the cabin. In this way, the internal temperature sensor in the heater will control the operation according to how warm the air is getting. I don't particularly like this arrangement; I'd much rather draw fresh air in from outside for heating, but that's what the Eberspacher people recommend. Maybe you could keep an eye out for a thermostat control, which would then allow you to use a fresh air intake?

I wouldn't worry about repeated shutdowns and restarts; if you've selected a low heat setting this shouldn't happen. Also, your idea of ducting the hot air to the front of the boat first will help to prevent frequent changes in the heater's output level.

It really is best to have a separate fuel takeoff for the heater. Eberspacher do one which is quite easy to fit and will avoid any potential problems associated with tapping in to your existing fuel line.

If you want to add a timer in the future, you'd be best to get a proper Eberspacher unit. Remember that the heater has a "run on" feature after the flame has been turned off, to cool the unit down safely.

One final thought. You'll need to cut a few big holes in bulkheads, etc, to run ducting. In the past, when I've installed heating ducts, I've cut these holes the hard way, by drilling a circle of little holes and then cutting round with a padsaw. Next time I do it, I'll borrow or hire a proper hole saw (it'll save a fortune on Elastoplast!).

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I also installed mine in the stern locker. I'm don't know the Centaur cockpit, but I took the air intake by leading a relatively short length of intake pipe back to a "pocket" in the inside coamings of the cockpit, where winch handles etc are kept when sailing. If your cockpit has such a thing, this is a great location since it is invisible, very well protected from the weather, but has a free flow-through of air.

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jimbouy

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Re: Some more answers...

Hi

"The intake for the combustion air can be in the locker, and you might need to add a vent to allow air in."

How would I vent the locker with out the risk of water getting in, a basic question I know, I reckonit would be just as much effort to do this as it would be to add a suitable fitting to draw air in.

There is plenty of room to loop the exhaust up quiet high, equally enough room to loop the combustion air in as well.

I have seen the stat/timers on ebay but my unit doesn't have the grey wire, but i expect it would not be hard to pick the wire up from with in the unit to add it.

The info on Ebers own fuel off take is interesting. sooner or later my tank needs to come out and either be cleaned out and tidied or be replaced entirely. perhaps I should bring that job forward. (reminds me of another post i need to make)

many thanks


Jim


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TonyS

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Re: Some more answers...

Just one additional point. As you don't have the grey wire it in fact would connected to pin 8 when you remove the cover. I got the very helpful Eberspacher rep at the boatshow to look up his diagram and show me. I think your heater is from a BT van and they saved money by eliminating the additional wire. Instead they fitted a one hour timer external box.
Tony

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pvb

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Re: Getting air into the locker...

I can't remember the exact design of the Centaur aft locker (it's some years since I had Centaur no 1487), but would it be possible to add a vent to the locker wall inside the cockpit? If so, you could just cut a hole and use a simple plastic or SS ventilator grille to cover it. Something like the Plastimo 12409 would do:-
12409.jpg


I wouldn't try to connect the combustion intake to the back of the vent, just let it draw air from the locker. This will also help stop any spray getting drawn into the heater.



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johna

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Re: Some more answers...

<<I wouldn't worry about repeated shutdowns and restarts; if you've selected a low heat setting this shouldn't happen.>>

My experience is the opposite in that the higher the setting the less it shuts down and I think logically this is more likely as on a low setting the temp will be reached more easily.

Re fuel supply I have now fitted heaters on two different boats and in each case I have provided seperate fuel storage. This has always been easier and I think safer than tapping into the engine system. Also it allows use of the heater should the engine fuel storage be out of use for any reason (re-fits etc).

Johna

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