Morbid curiosity

[Baggy]

As a follow on about all this new fan-dangle electronics to keep us safe at sea
I would like to know

The question is, are there any formal statistics, national or international, telling how many sailors
lose their lives, or just disappear at sea.?

I have been sailing for 30 years, 8 years as full time cruising around the atlantic,
apart from one occasion when someone fell over board in a marina and drowned
cant think I know of any incidences occurring.. whilst on my travels..

I know we had an incident quiet recently in Portugal.. but these are very rare events

Have to say... nearly got T-Boned by a very large tanker crossing the Gibraltar Straights
one night... Still sends shivers down my spine thinking about it....
Oh yes... got caught out in a blow in biscay.... frightened the bloomin day lights out of me

But Iam still here to tell the tales....

 

[30boat]

Incidents where boats are lost along the coast of Portugal are not uncommon and I can recall a few involving loss of life.Most were due to navigation errors.I was hit by a ship last year but survived(obviously) to tell the tale.All in all however sailing is quite a safe activity.

 

[sarabande]

The ROSPA statistics are buried in their clunky website and are not exactly current:-

http://search.rospa.com/search?q=dr...t=beta&proxystylesheet=beta&output=xml_no_dtd


Department for Transport data is much better, and includes a good table for the UK stats (see p5/179) :-

http://www.dft.gov.uk/foi-responses/2010/07/f0006617.pdf


The UK National Statistics Office buries the data in myriad ways. You may have to enter various search terms to reveal, but here's a start:-

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/hub/he...-of-the-population/causes-of-death/index.html



I have not dug into the EU data mine....

 

[Barnacle Bill]

My guess is, a great deal fewer than could reasonably justify the enormous total expenditure on safety equipment which is never used or needed.

 

[sarabande]

BB, the cost of one fatality on the UK roads is approx £1.7 million. I suspect that one death at sea is higher, though I have no figures for that assumption, but it will frequently involve international action.

Expenditure on safety equipment is either mandatory for the more professional maritime sectors, or generally voluntary for the recreational ones.

The cost/benefit analysis of buying a LJ or liferaft is quite clear; what turns it into an operational decision is the depth of your pocket.

What is clear is that advances in the design (passive) safety in fishing vessels and other commercials, plus the active safety of LJs, AIS, etc, has enabled many families to grow up with (usually male) members who would otherwise have drowned.

 

[Talbot]

My guess is, a great deal fewer than could reasonably justify the enormous total expenditure on safety equipment which is never used or needed.

Your statement does not make sense.

Numbers are low

However, is that because it is an unlikely occurrence, or because people do spend lots on safety equipment.

I tend to believe that the numbers are kept low due to the importance given to the equipment onboard

 

[Searush]

I had a look at the middle link & noticed some huge jumps in numbers of people killed on pleasure craft.

It starts (2004?) with 3 deaths (out of 17 total for all maritime)

Then it goes to 23/24 for a few years before eventually jumping to 40 odd.

Sorry about the vagueness, my memory isn't what it was, but you can get the picture. I wonder why the massive increases? Better reporting? Specific catastrophe? Specific bad weather, or huge increases in people afloat.

If I was running a factory & had safety stats like that I would want to know why & stop the trend. If I still had the job after such results!

 

[Baggy]

I suppose all things being equal that sailing or cruising is a very safe sport..
But.... dont get caught out, being in the wrong place at the right time.. or vicy vercy

Common sense is the rule of the day .. not all this electronic thingymajigs must have's....


There must be thousands of people out there sailing around the world at this moment
and have been doing so for many a year.. without incident..

so get out there... the water / freedom are loverly.... the Dabs

 

[Tranona]

There are no reliable statistics - even in the UK although MCA does produce statistics of all deaths related to water and the RNLI reams of data about the number and type of incidents it deals with.

Probably the most reliable account is that of the MAIB which has a statutory duty to investigate the causes of incidents either in British territorial waters or involving British registered ships. Its reports do indeed show that the number of deaths related to private leisure craft each year is extremely small and does not follow any pattern in terms of numbers - that is there is no discernible trend either up or down - just random events. There are commonalities in causes - for example, collisions, severe weather, structural failure of boats (particularly racing boats), gear failures and falling out of (usually) small boats. However even the numbers in each of these categories is extremely small.

So, it is easy to see why sailing is a very safe activity for most as they usually have a sound boat, try to avoid severe weather, keep away from big ships and always wear a lifejacket in a dinghy - particularly coming back from the pub!

 

[Angele]

My guess is, a great deal fewer than could reasonably justify the enormous total expenditure on safety equipment which is never used or needed.

I can see another Mastercard advert coming:

New liferaft and LJs = £1,000+

The value of your life and that of your crew, priceless.

I'm with Sarabande.

 

[Pye_End]

Probably the most reliable account is that of the MAIB which has a statutory duty to investigate the causes of incidents either in British territorial waters or involving British registered ships.

Aren't pleasure craft outside the scope of MAIB?

 

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDoo]

Aren't pleasure craft outside the scope of MAIB?

I suspect not - list of pleasure craft reports here - http://www.maib.gov.uk/publications/investigation_reports/reports_by_vessel_type_/leisure_craft.cfm

Also from here http://www.maib.gov.uk/about_us/index.cfm

Our remit
The powers of MAIB inspectors, and the framework for reporting and investigating accidents, are set out in the Merchant Shipping Act 1995. The Merchant Shipping (Accident Reporting and Investigation) Regulations 2005 put the framework into effect. These regulations are the foundation of the MAIB's work. They apply to merchant ships, fishing vessels and (with some exceptions) pleasure craft. They define accidents, set out the purpose of investigations and lay down the requirements for reporting accidents. They make provision for the ordering, notification and conduct of investigations, but allow inspectors a good deal of discretion - necessary, given the wide variety of cases.

 

[Pye_End]

Quote:
Our remit
.......They apply to merchant ships, fishing vessels and (with some exceptions) pleasure craft.......

The exceptions being:

'2. Accidents involving or occurring on board -
(a) a pleasure vessel
(b) a recreational craft hired on a bareboat basis
(c) any other craft or boat, other than one carrying passengers, which is in commercial use in a
harbour or on an inland waterway and is less than 8m in length'

 

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDoo]

The exceptions being:

'2. Accidents involving or occurring on board -
(a) a pleasure vessel
(b) a recreational craft hired on a bareboat basis
(c) any other craft or boat, other than one carrying passengers, which is in commercial use in a
harbour or on an inland waterway and is less than 8m in length'

That is interesting, many of the 'pleasure craft' reports seem to fit into those catagories.

 

[Pye_End]

That is interesting, many of the 'pleasure craft' reports seem to fit into those catagories.

My guess is that there is no requirement for them to follow them up, but they find a benefit in certain instances. There are also plenty of accidents which never reach MAIB reports.

 

[prv]

I understood that they always followed up a death, and may also look at other accidents where they think there's something to be learned.

...haven't checked for a source on that though .

Pete

 

[Barnacle Bill]

I can see another Mastercard advert coming:

New liferaft and LJs = £1,000+

The value of your life and that of your crew, priceless.

I'm with Sarabande.

Well I was just waiting for all the flack to come back from my comment, and I guess I got off pretty lightly ...

I suppose this prompted these thoughts: a) leisure sailing is a pretty safe sport (I've certainly been involved in more dangerous ones) and it is possible to go over the top on safety equipment - which doesn't matter at all if it's your own choice and your own money. After about 20 years of sailing I look around my boat and see quite a bit of stuff that has never been used and I am certain never will be, and I have bought quite a bit of 'safety' equipment that is unreliable and unfit for its advertised purpose. So what you carry and what you don't is a good subject for debate.

b) Coded boats (I ran 2) have to carry a mandatory list of equipment and maintain it year after year. This costs very much more than £1,000+. In these circumstances it is easy to see why the required list always grows and never shrinks - it's bureaucratic caution spending other people's money! Category 0 coding requirements (unlimited cruising area) are grossly OTT and completely out of line with normal private leisure sailing practice.

Lets hope private yachts in the UK are never subject to licencing and similar mandatory requirements ...