Moorings, river bed dispute

[quimby]

Question for legal buffs.
You have moorings on a tidal river,your chain is staked between the two banks,your boat touches bottom at low water,you have moored there for over twenty years without anyone questioning your right to be there. Out of the blue two parties claim ownership of the river bed,you find one has registered a claim at Land registry say, 2 years ago. the two parties decide to go to court. would you have a strong claim to the river bed? as you have been on the mooring with the permission of the riverbank land owners for the said twenty years, who I would add, are not involved in the dispute. One party offers you a lease for a number of years at a peppercorn rent, would you stake your claim and take your chance in court? I would add it is probably not crown property.the dispute has yet to be settled in court.

 

[brianrunyard]

I thought river beds were "owned" by the NRA and that it's only possible to lease it, not claim ownership.

 

[quimby]

Must be some doubt, or they would not go into court

 

[Hugh Foulis]

In the absence of any ancient or other unusual arrangements, the river is 'owned' by the landowners of the river bank (the riparian owners). If each bank is in seperate ownership then each owns the river as far as the middle as measured between the two banks. The NRA is now part of the environment agency. I am on a project board for a multi milion pound flood defence scheme and we are having to negotiate with landowners up and down the length of rivers in order to secure acces to carry out works.
HF

 

[tangomoon]

Remote chance IF it applies in your situation is Adverse Possession, which you canclaim if you have used a piece of land unhinedred, openly and as if ti was you own for 12 years. That's roughly it - get some legal advice - if somebody has registered it you may be able to contest it. BOL

Let us know very interested - some people have claimed large tracts of land on this basis.

 

[quimby]

I am given to understand the land owners own to a mark halfway between MHWS & MHWN, hence the claim

 

[Bru]

Having been peripherally involved in an adverse possession dispute (started by a neighbour trying to claim part of the waste ground at the bottom of our gardens) - the key point is that you have to have enclosed the land (eg; erected a fence) and denied the rightful owner access to it whilst using it for your own purposes for at least 12 years without any objections.

Bit tricky fencing off a riverbed I would have thought!

 

[jeanne]

I assume that the creek you are talking about is tidal (near a well known Golf club maybe?) - then it is probably under the jurisdiction of the Crown Estates Commisioners. They are able to levy rent for moorings in such areas. You can apply to them for any area between high and low water that you wish to use and pay for it, either as an individual or organisation. However, somebody else may have already done this deal, and in their turn, will charge you a higher rent and in turn pay whatever(lower) rental they have agreed with the Crown Commisioners.

In your area, Uphill doesn´t pay charges(because there is no one club/authority to collect, and the Crown hasn´t got anybody in muddy boots to try and trace every single owner of moorings), but Portishead Crusing Club does because the Club has a contract with the Crown Comm and basically collects via annual mooring charges. PCC fought against this for years, but had to cave in eventually as it feared that a third party would do the deal and then increase the mooring fees substantially or even ask the club to vacate the moorings. i.e better the devil you know!

If you have time, you may find it useful (and enjoyable) to visit PCC on Wednesday clubnight, and ask to speak with one of the older flag officers there. Good luck - had some great times in your particular creek!

 

[Woodlouse]

If there's a tide there then doesn't that technically make it the coast? And therefore whats in it is the sea and beneath is the seabed. Which no one can claim to own.

 

[graham]

sorry to hear your having these problems.I have only visited your place once about 15 years ago had a friendly welcome from some of your members and spent the night dried out moored to the pontoon.Best of luck with the legal wrangle. I would think the RYA would be a good source of advice.