moorings problem, who holds the insurance

[kunyang]

If you saw my previous thread, I believed I had been rammed on the mooring. Oh dear, don't jump to the obvious when you should look a little deeper.

Scenario, One hour off high water on the ebb on Saturday. My wife said 'that looks close' and the boat on the next trot was swinging towards Kunyang. All other boats were lying 'with tide'! I go out and fend off said yacht. She swings back into the flow and looks a long way off. An hour later the same thing happens. Obviously this has been on going for a few weeks when conditions allow, and the Easterleys seem to be the cause.

So, the question to the legal team is, who carries liability, I assume it is the club, who laid the moorings and maintain them. All strops etc to boats appeared to be ok. My bow spit was over my buoy, and the other yacht appeared pretty similar.

P.S. I have moved her to a club pontoon for the summer, now!

Dave

 

[wotayottie]

So, the question to the legal team is, who carries liability, I assume it is the club, who laid the moorings and maintain them.

I very much doubt it unless the moorings were specifically laid to suit both your boat and the boats next to you. Even then, if the club is unincorporated, you cannot sue them - in the legal view you would be suing all the members inc yourself and that isnt allowed.

You would be better off regarding it as an accident and moving to a more suitable mooring.

 

[kunyang]

I do not intend to 'make a claim' and I am dealing with the damage. The club has helped by finding an alternate mooring, but, both moorings I have been advised have been set for 30 ft yachts, and neither yacht is 30ft. Just interested. It could have been a lot worse.

 

[epervier]

I do not intend to 'make a claim' and I am dealing with the damage. The club has helped by finding an alternate mooring, but, both moorings I have been advised have been set for 30 ft yachts, and neither yacht is 30ft. Just interested. It could have been a lot worse.

if my experience of "club" moorings are anything to go by, you'd be better off hanging off your own anchor,a local club I know of insists on using concrete sinkers, one of the easiest things to pull off station, better to lay samsons in tandem, or 3 in crows foot, in silt or sand. what is your seabed material?

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Not your problem.

You were on a buoy.
The other guy hit you as you were stationery ( in relative terms) and his stern hits your bow.
His boat is too big for the mooring or he tied it on incorrectly.
You claim from your insurance company giving them the facts.
It's up to your insurance company to claim from him or not.
Its up to him to get his insurance company to pay the claim or not.

The only issue is whether your insurers do not consider him a fault, or cn be bothered and therefore take away any no claims bonus, if you have one.

Not your problem.

 

[Seajet]

I have been on my half tide mooring for over 34 years, and once had a prat who put his mooring insanely close who didn't seem to mind when I mentioned their boat was going to be damaged as well as mine.

I supplied photo's of our boats hitting in a light wind; I had been in an approved position for 30 years and laid the mooring myself, this berk didn't know his arse from aft and been there 5 minutes, but thought being an accountant made everything he said right.

We had a rather forthright discussion, during which he said " I don't care what damage happens to your boat !

That might have been a poor choice of words to someone whose love of his life is the boat which has seen him through a lot...

When he said that, I replied " you'll be sorry if your boat damages this one ! "

Him:" Is that a threat ? "

" Of course it's a bloody threat, what more do you want ?!!!"

Then I got a job away in France for the season, was worried about my boat so let it be known I was putting horizontal steel spikes and barbed wire out ( I wasn't joking ).

I called & mailed him ( this was before e-mail ) " As you say the boats will be fine and will never be in contact despite my photographs, this will of course be of no concern ".

Strangely enough the idiot moved the boat then gave up sailing altogether AFIK; and good riddance !

Just one of the little hassles over a lifetime with boats, if that's the worst I'll be both surprised & grateful !

Andy

 

[wotayottie]

I do not intend to 'make a claim' and I am dealing with the damage. The club has helped by finding an alternate mooring, but, both moorings I have been advised have been set for 30 ft yachts, and neither yacht is 30ft. Just interested. It could have been a lot worse.

OK so the moorings are for 30 footers and from what you imply I guess your boat is a bit more than that as is the other. Did they tell you that when they allocated the mooring to you - if so you are responsible for your situation. If they did not do so and they knew your boat was too big for its mooring then they are responsible. You still cannot claim ( if you intended to do so or if your insurance company wanted to do so) off an unincorporated club but you could do so against the moorings officer personally assuming it was he who allocated the mooring. If the club is incorporated then your insurance company could claim against the club.

Be careful how you handle any insurance claim. We have had experience at our club of a similar claim being forced legal by the insurance company. One member organised a crane to do some lifting on behalf of a group of members and due to bad weather one boat on the hoist was banged against another. The owner of the damaged boat claimed from his insurance and against his will but under the terms of his insurance contract it became a civil claim in his name against the member who organised the crane. Created a lot of bad blood.

 

[Lakesailor]

OK so the moorings are for 30 footers and from what you imply I guess your boat is a bit more than that as is the other.

Halcyon Clippers seem to be 27 feet.

 

[lw395]

It seems to me that most moorings are generally close enough together that it is possible for boats to swing into one another. It seems to come down to local knowledge and reasonable compatibility of boats so that they swing together closely enough.
There can still be issues though. Calm conditions are usually most awkward, you may find one boat is swung around by wash from passing boats.

The Club should hold insurance. As must each boat!

 

[A1Sailor]

It seems to me that most moorings are generally close enough together that it is possible for boats to swing into one another. It seems to come down to local knowledge and reasonable compatibility of boats so that they swing together closely enough.
There can still be issues though. Calm conditions are usually most awkward, you may find one boat is swung around by wash from passing boats.

The Club should hold insurance. As must each boat!

The Club of which I was Hon Sec didn't have a clubhouse nor moorings, but nonetheless thought it prudent to have public liability insurance. It swallowed up a huge chunk of the membership subscriptions - all to cover 4-5 low key races involving 10-15 members, and some shorebased events.
We debated it long and hard each year - then renewed it...

A Medical Society of which I was President is an "unincorporated association", with the members liable if it gets sued and/or runs out of money.
The debate about whether to become a Company Limited by Guarantee" is well underway...

Back to the thread! imho the club has laid a mooring, the OP has chosen to use it, and his insurance company presumably provided cover for keeping his boat on it. The Club should do an annual inspection, but other than that assuming the mooring is suitable I don't think the club can do any more. "Assuming the mooring is suitable..."

 

[Boathook]

If you saw my previous thread, I believed I had been rammed on the mooring. Oh dear, don't jump to the obvious when you should look a little deeper.

Scenario, One hour off high water on the ebb on Saturday. My wife said 'that looks close' and the boat on the next trot was swinging towards Kunyang. All other boats were lying 'with tide'! I go out and fend off said yacht. She swings back into the flow and looks a long way off. An hour later the same thing happens. Obviously this has been on going for a few weeks when conditions allow, and the Easterleys seem to be the cause.

So, the question to the legal team is, who carries liability, I assume it is the club, who laid the moorings and maintain them. All strops etc to boats appeared to be ok. My bow spit was over my buoy, and the other yacht appeared pretty similar.

P.S. I have moved her to a club pontoon for the summer, now!

Dave

Are you able to let more warp out so that the buoy is at the end of the bowsprit so that you are laying further aft? It would seem though that both boats may be to big for the moorings.

 

[kunyang]

Both boats are smaller than the max stated by the club, i.e. 26ft & 27ft. The club has measured the distance and state that they are 19m apart. I am not sure they believe me! They are still investigating. I wait with baited breath.

 

[GrahamM376]

We had a successful claim against another boat which hit us in Conwy, we were on adjacent moorings.

He was an old gaffer and had very long strop which was tied off on a deck bollard just in front of his mast. He hadn't moused it on his stem fitting and when it jumped off the roller during rough night, it was effectively about 15 ft long and allowed the boat to shear around with his mooring buoy nearer to his stern. His bow sprit was impaled in our pulpit.

He was deemed negligent and his insurers paid out.