Moorings 'n Security (Bit long winded as ever!)

[BobE]

Moorings \'n Security (Bit long winded as ever!)

Just wondered what you guys 'n gals think of this...

The sailing club of which I am a member runs a voluntary security patrol when the cruising boats are on the moorings... It's basically two members in a club launch going up and down the river and shining a spotlight around to warn off potential thieves.
The patrol is not well supported and the guy who organises it seems to have difficulty in getting people to take part. Furthermore it seems to be taken as normal for the last patrol to be started when the club bar closes.
One of our members had his boat broken into twice last year and lost a total of about £15,000 of kit/damage. And there have been other thefts.
I've just refused a club mooring, preferring to pay about £750 more pa to have the security of a pontoon with auto detection lights, also shore power, water on tap and the ease of walking on and off when setting out for a short club race. Most of all it would break my heart to see the old boat damaged by some felon...
So I'm thinking of proposing the following at the AGM and wonder what reaction normal people (or even abnormal people /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) would have to them or am I wasting my time?
Here goes: --
I propose that, in order to retain a club mooring, all boatowners must carry out a minimum of two security patrols each year. The patrols will commence at latest 2200 hrs and finish at 0300hrs or daybreak whichever is the earliest.
Any mooring holder who does not carry out the patrols or arrange privately for another member to take his/her place will pay to the club £25 for each missed patrol.
The £25 will be placed in a deposit account and used to assist any member, who suffers a break-in to his boat whilst it is on a club mooring, thus helping to defray the insurance excess.

Of course does not answer the basic question as to what one would do in this "Nanny state" if one actually found someone breaking into a boat!??

But would any of you "second" my proposal??

(Incidentally I've done my share of patrols although I don't have a club mooring.)

Just dippin' a toe.
Cheers Bob E..

 

[penultimate]

Re: Moorings \'n Security (Bit long winded as ever!)

I believe your approach is the right one. In my club mooring holders pay an extra £50 p.a. for their mooring. This is refunded provided they carry out two Boatwatch duties during the season. (These duties are clearly specified, but I shan't go into details for obvious security reasons.)

 

[webcraft]

Re: Moorings \'n Security (Bit long winded as ever!)

I just like living in the unreal world . . .

A little old lady apparently watches our boat from her house opposite the mooring and after the last F12 commented to Kathy when she was working in the local shop the next morning that she had been watching our boat and it hadn't shifted.

The weather is crap here, there's no Marks and Spencers, no B&Q, mobile phones don't work and I run the only web development company in the UK that doesn't have broadband - but I leave my door unlocked when I go to the pub. Posts like this make me realise that I wouldn't change it for anything.

- Nick

 

[BobE]

Re: Moorings \'n Security (Bit long winded as ever!)

Is that an "Aye" or a "Nay" ??
Should I go for it ??
Cheers Bob E...

 

[BrendanS]

Re: Moorings \'n Security (Bit long winded as ever!)

I'd go for it, but have arguements for and against lined up ready to use, as you'll take some flack

 

[ubuysa]

Re: Moorings \'n Security (Bit long winded as ever!)

And exactly what would your security patrol do when it found someone attempting to break into a club members boat? Since it's not your property you have no right to defend it, so.........you probably leave yourself open to a claim for assault, false imprisonment, actual bodily harm and God knows what else. Would I do one of your patrols under those conditions? No. I'll pay the £25 fine, it'll be cheaper than hiring a lawyer


Tony C..

 

[tworeefs]

Re: Moorings \'n Security (Bit long winded as ever!)

Sounds reasonable and sensible to me. I would second.

 

[Talbot]

Re: Moorings \'n Security (Bit long winded as ever!)

The only bit I dont agree with is whereyou want to fine a guy who has privately arranged for someone else to do his shift. If they are both happy, and the shift is carried out, and the coordinator is aware, why should it matter. I can think of lots of reasons for not being able to manage a patrol, but your punitive measure should be for those occasiobns where no substitute has been arranged by the member responsible for that patrol.

 

[Shakey]

Re: Moorings \'n Security (Bit long winded as ever!)

Lawyers and spurious counter claims aside, the only difference between powers of arrest by a police officer and Joe Public is that the police can arrest on suspicion before the crime is committed. Classic example is the stake out outside a bank and arresting the bad guys as they arrive to blag the place.

Citizens can arrest during an offence or after an offence if they have reasonable grounds that the person committed the alleged offence.

During a 'citizen's arrest' you can use reasonable force to stop a person escaping before the arrival of the law, but you cannot 'imprison' them or use handcuffs etc.

An example of 'imprisoning' them would be placing them in a locked room, even if you were present in that room.

I could be talking b*ll*cks here - any criminal law experts about?

PS. I have made numerous citizen's arrests (in a previous job) and didn't end up in court.

 

[roger]

Re: Moorings \'n Security (Bit long winded as ever!)

I reckon you are putting the patrolling members at considerable risk - engine failure leading to possibly drowning , hypothermia etc. etc. particularly if they indeed stay out on the water for five hours.
The thieves would be quite likely to turn violent if caught.
I woudnt think you could expect anyone but the young, fit, large and healthy to do the patrols.

 

[Shakey]

Re: Moorings \'n Security (Bit long winded as ever!)

[ QUOTE ]
I reckon you are putting the patrolling members at considerable risk - engine failure leading to possibly drowning , hypothermia etc. etc. particularly if they indeed stay out on the water for five hours.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone who sets off in a RIB or similar without a couple of paddles onboard is asking for it IMHO!

Joking aside, a club member walking their dog on the riverbank would be an additional deterrent. Thieves hate attention being drawn to themselves when they're 'at work', and barking dogs do just that. Potentially psychotic and territorial German Shepherds, Rottweilers or Rhodesian Ridgebacks even more so!

Just thought of another use for the paddles - legitimate means of self defence if confronted by violent wrong-doers!

 

[fireball]

Re: Moorings \'n Security (Bit long winded as ever!)

Bother the catching of the crooks - depending on the patrolled area I doubt any crooks would bother turning up. There are too many easy pickings there so why make life more difficult.
As you already have a policy of patrolling the moorings I can't see any reason NOT to put a more formal proposal to the AGM. Why should some mooring holders benefit from patrols when they won't do a duty themselves?
A fine of £25 isn't a lot though and probaby won't help increase the volunteers by much, but at least you'd have a bit in the kitty to help those less foturnate (restrict this benefit to those who actually carry out a patrol?).

You would need to set down get-out clauses though...

And if the theives were bold enough to break in (or too stupid to realise there was a patrol!) then why not take pictures of the act - photographic evidence would be very useful and should act as proof for the police.

The very worst that could happen would be that the club withdraws this useful service....

 

[BobE]

Re: Moorings \'n Security (Bit long winded as ever!)

Sorry Maybe I didn't put it properly If he gets someone from the club to do his patrol that's fine by me.. But I think it has to be a club member using one of the club launches Vhf and all..
Ok ??
Cherrs and thanks for the input Bob E...

 

[BobE]

Re: Moorings \'n Security (Bit long winded as ever!)

In reply to "Ubuysa"
Quote
And exactly what would your security patrol do when it found someone attempting to break into a club members boat? Since it's not your property you have no right to defend it, so.........you probably leave yourself open to a claim for assault, false imprisonment, actual bodily harm and God knows what else. Would I do one of your patrols under those conditions? No. I'll pay the £25 fine, it'll be cheaper than hiring a lawyer
Unquote

Yes I agree with all the above However I'm advised by an ex copper that one must have a large spanner to adjust, for example, the stern gland, just in case thing do get nasty. Then claim it just happened to be to hand and you grabbed it in self-defence when you shatter his kneecaps!!

But the idea is that, with a patrol of two in a motor launch, there will be a deterrent and the baddies may go for easier pickings .

At present we carry a VHF and mobile ..But how do the police get to the scene… They're land bound…
Furthermore if one did somehow apprehend a thief the guy would probably have dumped the swag over the side as soon as he saw us. So no evidence. But we have, I firmly believe, got to do something.

"Penultimate's" system of charging an extra £50 for the mooring in the first place and then returning £25 each time the mooring holder does a patrol. sounds good to me.. Maybe I could supplement my pension??

"Roger" I take the point. But members are already asked to do patrols. I'm suggesting that there should be a benefit to those who say "Yes". Those of us who already do the patrol are already at risk..

"AFrogley" Yes, I like the camera idea… even a hand held flash might be a deterrent if it was fired now and then…

Last patrol I did, a woman on a mobo asked what was going on and seemed happy when we replied
"This is the XXX S C patrol looking after your investment" !
We have also been told to sod off when the spotlight was flashed into a boat at an inopportune moment.
(back to the KY jelly thread)??

I'm really grateful for all the input and ideas… I'll let you know if I'm drummed out..

Cheers Bob E… You could of course send me a PM if you wish…..

 

[paulskent]

Re: Moorings \'n Security (Bit long winded as ever!)

Those of you with long memories may remember that my boat sits on a pontoon at the bottom of my garden. In actual fact we will be moving into the house in the next couple of weeks. (seperate thread if you want to talk about delivery times and furniture)

Last week (during one of the gales) one of the Marina operatives climbed onto my boat to re-fasten a spring that had caught beneath one of the fairlead rollers. He reckoned he was on the boat for about 4 minutes when he saw a flash go off from above him. It was my next door neighbour (works from home) who had seen him arrive and had the sense to work out that if the guy took anything, he needed to have evidence. My neighbour he shouted at him to check out who he was. Even though the reply and the weather situation tied up, he emailed me a copy of the photo which I picked up here at the office about 15 minutes after the incident took place.

I would suggest that a digital camera and a loud voice is all that the guards should employ. Any use of force used could lead to all sorts of potentially undesirable outcomes. Especially with all that water about. I also would agree with the concept of reduced fees for those who are prepared to support the security initative with their personal time.

PK.