modern alternatorvoltages and Sterling chargers

[catmandoo]

Have just replaced my old alternators with 2 lectrica AAk 80 amp and 70 amp alternators . manufacturers literature indacates that alternator regulators are set at 14.5 volts presumably with a percentages margin above ane below that . currently getting about 14.7 volts out put on start up . both alternators discharging to common point on Sterling Reg Pro relay which at first reserves output to starter battery . problem is tha existing Sterling alternator advanced regulators seem to curt out at 14.5 voltsall lights flashing .so i am at a loss what to do .
should I play about with ignition light power currently drawing 3 amps from ignition.
Current lights measured at 3 ohms i have doubled up on cable sizes to reduce voltage drop from alternators so am now considering the situation
phoned sterling yeaterday and nice guy said " at that voltage you dont need our regulators " but later on suggested I check voltage at each length and from batteries . With doubling up I dont think so so have I a problem or is the Sterling regulator now an antique . Sterling mentions now way should it be above 15 volts but motor manufactureres says no problem

any comments please - SWIMBO is on point of abandoning ship for good .

 

[William_H]

A bit confusing as to your electric charge set up. I assume you have 2 engines. (catmandoo?) Possibly you have 2 battery banks so alternators are isolated from one another. Interesting that twin engined light aircraft have 2 alternators feeding one battery. They have a ballancing regulator to keep the load equal in each alternator as if one takes the load and rasises the output voltage it would tend to turn off the regulator on the other. This means the first alternator to start charging helps the battery in starting the second engine and importantly if one engine fails then no action required re electric supply.
Yes I understand modern alternator regulators as fitted to the alternator tend to be a higher voltage and some have the stepped charge regime included. ie a higher charge voltage until battery voltage indicates it is charged when voltasge drops. You should try to track down details of the reulators fitted to your new alternators.
However I would suggest you get another multimeter and compare accuracy of your meter. Multimeters will read higher than actual if the meter battery is too low.
I am confused as you seem to have the sterling advanced regulator in the circuit already which will produce the higher voltages. However I understand also that most connection arrangements mean that the original alternator regulator will back up or take over from the sterling so the system will produce the higher voltage of either sterling or original regulator.
I can not understand your 3 amps for ignition light. This is usually more like .03 amp (30 milliamps) as the current is just enough to produce a little magnetism in the field coil so allowing the alternator to generate its own greater field current which might be nearer 1 amp.

The Sterling pro relay might describe its operation as "magically reserves output power to start battery before feeding to the house battery". This is saleman's hype for the fact that the VSR senses the engine battery voltage and operates when this rises to about 13v. (often adjustable). Now naturally the engine battery will receive a recharge before this voltage is reached but usually the voltage rises on charge quite quickly so engine battery does not get that much recharge before additional battery is switched in. Further the total charge current is not limited by alternator capacity but rather what the batteries actual take in, then 2 batteries being charged at once is better than one at a time. So no real advantage to their hype. sorry I am not much help need more details olewill

 

[ianj99]

Have just replaced my old alternators with 2 lectrica AAk 80 amp and 70 amp alternators . manufacturers literature indacates that alternator regulators are set at 14.5 volts presumably with a percentages margin above ane below that . currently getting about 14.7 volts out put on start up . both alternators discharging to common point on Sterling Reg Pro relay which at first reserves output to starter battery . problem is the existing Sterling alternator advanced regulators seem to curt out at 14.5 voltsall lights flashing .so i am at a loss what to do

I had a problem with my Sterling reg detecting an 'overvoltage' condition and shutting down after about 10mins. I replaced all the alternator to battery cables with much thicker ones and haven't had a problem since. I think the problem is due to the voltage sense lead being at the battery and the overvoltage sensing being done at the alternator so any voltage drop between the two trips the shut down.

 

[catmandoo]

A bit confusing as to your electric charge set up. I assume you have 2 engines. (catmandoo?) Possibly you have 2 battery banks so alternators are isolated from one another. Interesting that twin engined light aircraft have 2 alternators feeding one battery. They have a ballancing regulator to keep the load equal in each alternator as if one takes the load and rasises the output voltage it would tend to turn off the regulator on the other. This means the first alternator to start charging helps the battery in starting the second engine and importantly if one engine fails then no action required re electric supply.
Yes I understand modern alternator regulators as fitted to the alternator tend to be a higher voltage and some have the stepped charge regime included. ie a higher charge voltage until battery voltage indicates it is charged when voltasge drops. You should try to track down details of the reulators fitted to your new alternators.
However I would suggest you get another multimeter and compare accuracy of your meter. Multimeters will read higher than actual if the meter battery is too low.
I am confused as you seem to have the sterling advanced regulator in the circuit already which will produce the higher voltages. However I understand also that most connection arrangements mean that the original alternator regulator will back up or take over from the sterling so the system will produce the higher voltage of either sterling or original regulator.
I can not understand your 3 amps for ignition light. This is usually more like .03 amp (30 milliamps) as the current is just enough to produce a little magnetism in the field coil so allowing the alternator to generate its own greater field current which might be nearer 1 amp.

The Sterling pro relay might describe its operation as "magically reserves output power to start battery before feeding to the house battery". This is saleman's hype for the fact that the VSR senses the engine battery voltage and operates when this rises to about 13v. (often adjustable). Now naturally the engine battery will receive a recharge before this voltage is reached but usually the voltage rises on charge quite quickly so engine battery does not get that much recharge before additional battery is switched in. Further the total charge current is not limited by alternator capacity but rather what the batteries actual take in, then 2 batteries being charged at once is better than one at a time. So no real advantage to their hype. sorry I am not much help need more details olewill

I
I have one engine driving two new alternators replacing aged ones no longer available as replacements
So I got what I believed were modern equivalents however in the small print in the AAK (Lectrica Slovenia) spec sheet it gives voltage regimes over a range of operating temperatures but with a specified factory set regulator voltage of 14.6v.
This is where I lose the place as I can find no way of reducing this set point as it is close to 15 volts which I understand will boil the batteries according to Mr Sterling . His units which I used with the old alternators switch off around 14.5v so my dilemma or dilemma is have I got the wrong alternators or if not are the Sterling units now junk?
If I was using other than lead acid batteries then how would I taylor the system to work at a lower voltage
Is there some way of playing about with the resistance of the ignition warning light or do I find a Lectrica agent and get him to send me two replacement regulators set at 14 volts or thereabouts?
I agree that my instrument might not be accurate at low values I cannot reconcile the fact that measured ohms across a 2 watt light bulb only reads 8 I did break the circuit once to measure amps and got 3 amps incidentally both inline diodes got hot to touch as did the bulbs which was surprising for an expected low current . I stated off with two parallel circuits with bulb and diode for each alternator and even tried with single bulb as on old system with two diodes etc to see if made any difference which it did not

 

[ianj99]

I
I have one engine driving two new alternators replacing aged ones no longer available as replacements
So I got what I believed were modern equivalents however in the small print in the AAK (Lectrica Slovenia) spec sheet it gives voltage regimes over a range of operating temperatures but with a specified factory set regulator voltage of 14.6v.
This is where I lose the place as I can find no way of reducing this set point as it is close to 15 volts which I understand will boil the batteries according to Mr Sterling . His units which I used with the old alternators switch off around 14.5v so my dilemma or dilemma is have I got the wrong alternators or if not are the Sterling units now junk?
If I was using other than lead acid batteries then how would I taylor the system to work at a lower voltage
Is there some way of playing about with the resistance of the ignition warning light or do I find a Lectrica agent and get him to send me two replacement regulators set at 14 volts or thereabouts?
I agree that my instrument might not be accurate at low values I cannot reconcile the fact that measured ohms across a 2 watt light bulb only reads 8 I did break the circuit once to measure amps and got 3 amps incidentally both inline diodes got hot to touch as did the bulbs which was surprising for an expected low current . I stated off with two parallel circuits with bulb and diode for each alternator and even tried with single bulb as on old system with two diodes etc to see if made any difference which it did not

Just insert a suitably rated rectifier diode in series with the alternator outputs. These will reduce the voltage by about .7- 1v. This is the only way you can reduce the voltage at the batteries to prevent overcharging. However are you sure you are not misundertanding the alternator specs. The colder the ambient temp, the higher the charging voltage needs to be, so in cold weather its quite possible the output could reach 15v which won't boil the batteries.

 

[William_H]

Firstly measuring the resistance of a light bulb is not indicative of its operating current. The metal in the filament has temperature coefficent which means it is low ressitance when cold and high ressitance when hot and operating. The only way is to light the bulb on 12v and measure the current.
The 3 amps and the overheating didoes is very abnormal. It might mean that someone has added a circuit that is operated when the key switch is on but has connected down stream of the ignition light. But then the light should not carry that sort of current so perhaps your urrent measuring point was wrong. Changing the bulbs will not change the charge voltage at all.

Regarding boiling the batteries. I would suggest you try the alternators for a period of long engine running and just see if your batteries get distressed. As said you can reduce their voltage with a diode but this will wasted a lot of heat and power. 7watts for every 10 amps of alternator output. So get very hot and need a big heat sink. if you go that way you might as well fit the diodes in plkace of VSR. No much better to change the regulators or try to get an external regulator with adjustable voltage. or remove the regulators and rely on Sterling regulator.

 

[catmandoo]

I had a problem with my Sterling reg detecting an 'overvoltage' condition and shutting down after about 10mins. I replaced all the alternator to battery cables with much thicker ones and haven't had a problem since. I think the problem is due to the voltage sense lead being at the battery and the overvoltage sensing being done at the alternator so any voltage drop between the two trips the shut down.

i spoke to Sterling who told me to switch of the white wires and run engines without Advanced regulators . in doing so output voltage was at manufacturers spec 14.6 volts . Onswitching on Sterling units voltage rose to 15 volts and sterling shut off . Could only reset alternators by shuting dowm and restarting .

conculsion my end was that Sterling units nackered . Sterling say send back and they will test to prove it free of charge

looking back I think that this type of system is now an antique as with higher voleages at alternators and with all the Bu**eration with all thse coloured wires an alternator to battery charger is the final option simple to install albeit expensive

 

[William_H]

Certainly with alternators providing 14.6 volts then the advantages of the Smart charge regulator add ons is diminished. ie the new alternator will do nearly as we;lll as the smart reg. What I don't understand is that to my mind batteries have not really changed still being lead acid yet it not seems OK to charge at higher voltages presumably for long periods without damaging the battery yet years ago 13.75 was considered the correct regulator voltage for long term charging. Have batteries changed so much over the years and wehat if you have old style open l;ead acid ? olewill

 

[catmandoo]

contacte dAdverc for another opini. . Adverc settings are 14 v for 5 minutes 14 .4 v for 15 minutes if alter nator voltages are higher than these then you dont need an |Adverc or even a sterling equivalent

still waiting to hear from Lectrika who initialy said voltages agreed with motor manufacturers eg Volvo Penta

 

[vyv_cox]

The Smartgauge website, which many electrical specialists seem to regard highly, makes the point that modern alternators with higher outputs than used to be the case don't need smart regulators. Maybe the answer is simply to remove the Sterling. I think we are currently about 20 metres apart, so I could bring my cutters around

 

[catmandoo]

The Smartgauge website, which many electrical specialists seem to regard highly, makes the point that modern alternators with higher outputs than used to be the case don't need smart regulators. Maybe the answer is simply to remove the Sterling. I think we are currently about 20 metres apart, so I could bring my cutters around

Too late I had already done it .
Now got two Ex external regulators with cut wires to dispose of .
Lectrica response was guarded indicating can't answer any more questions . Charles S thinks Internal regulators on Lectrica( Ikaria AAK ) etc come from China where settings can be up to 14.8 V for no apparent reason . . So I am fitting an A to B Charger which has split charge diode to drop voltage by about one volt and then amplify as required to feed split charge relay down stream beauty is I now get float at reasonable level 13.6 V etc and top up my batteries less frequently I hope

Con is that this whole episode has cost a lot . Should have bought more compatible alternators and fitted smart bank . Lesson is to look at regulator setting as well as cost when purchasing alternators but heavy going when getting data from sellers on internet

 

[charles_reed]

I'd second Vyv's comment.

Modern alternators have made so-called smart controllers redundant.

I've just bypassed the Adverc, on start-up (@ the splitting diode input) the new Lectrica alternator puts out 15.1v dropping to 14.1 after running for some time. The MPPT tracker is set to 14.4v to float. When I connect to shorepower the charger goes straight into absorption phase, the batteries just need no bulk charge.
I haven't gone as far as taking the Adverc out with cutters etc, but I'd be glad to get rid of their harness.

 

[MikeBz]

Depends on what you regard as modern perhaps. Our 2003 (year) MD2020 with stock alternator & regulator only put out volts in the low 13s at tick over and at revs no more than 13.8-13.9V. I've recently fitted a Sterling A2B and now get 14.5V and 45A (compared to less than 20A previously) going into my partially (~20%) discharged 200Ah AGM bank. It has made a massive difference to how quickly and how fully the batteries charge - a lot of money but absolutely worth it to me.

 

[johnww]

I think the simple answer is - there is no simple answer! It depends on what you are trying to achieve with what equipment you have.

I can only comment on the setup I have which works for me.

I have an MD2030 and added a balmar 100a alternator. I changed the pulleys to the serpentine type i.e water pump, crankshaft and alternator so I could use the modern type poly-v belts. I also fitted a balmar smart reg which is very adjustable and of course completely matched to the alternator. A nice standard option on this setup is the ability to include an in line switch to disconnect the smart reg and revert to the alternators internal regulator. Not had to do that yet but nice to know its there as an option.
My battery set up is 4 x 110 a/h house bank, 1 x 85 a/h starter and 1 x 100 a/h windlass battery up front. All works well for me and plenty of adjustment.

Hope the above info may be of help to someone

 

[charles_reed]

Depends on what you regard as modern perhaps. Our 2003 (year) MD2020 with stock alternator & regulator only put out volts in the low 13s at tick over and at revs no more than 13.8-13.9V. I've recently fitted a Sterling A2B and now get 14.5V and 45A (compared to less than 20A previously) going into my partially (~20%) discharged 200Ah AGM bank. It has made a massive difference to how quickly and how fully the batteries charge - a lot of money but absolutely worth it to me.

Modern = 2011 and after and then only with some non-OEM manufacturers.

2003 is definitely archaic.

 

[MikeBz]

Modern = 2011 and after and then only with some non-OEM manufacturers.

2003 is definitely archaic.

Ah right, makes sense now. I no longer need to justify my purchase Mind you I still believe that a smarter regulator is a better idea in that it will give you the fastest possible charge without frying the battery forever - 14.1V forever is still a compromise between the two.

 

[catmandoo]

Ah right, makes sense now. I no longer need to justify my purchase Mind you I still believe that a smarter regulator is a better idea in that it will give you the fastest possible charge without frying the battery forever - 14.1V forever is still a compromise between the two.

Probably now OK in cooler Norther European vehicles to have high charging voltages . Suppler told me he frequently had batteries charging at 15 Volts - no problem etc ie for cars just used for starting but in the marine sense and perhaps in camper vans we run our domestics further down the voltage scale and particularly in the med the ambient temperatures reach 40 degrees plus and possibly more in the engine compartment then loss of electrolite due to boiling etc becomes a real problem . I am getting no younger and squatting at the bottom of a deep locker trying to top up tightly packed large batteries results in cramp , sweat in the eyes ( not acid ) and general bad temper plus holes in my breeks where acid dropped
. Have tried sealed batteries which got hot and had pronounced bulges so as CS says lead acid is the only solution . More so in a hot climate however I wish some one would invent a device for remotely topping up batteries . The Povver ( Mutlu brand ) ones I got in Turkey have plastic tubes over each cell to conduct gases out of the locker . I am thinking of getting a syringe to inject water down these to see if it will work . One can only try . If I am successful I will be one happy chappie

 

[JumbleDuck]

I'd second Vyv's comment.

Modern alternators have made so-called smart controllers redundant.

My little 1GM10 has a recent Hitachi 35A alternator, which puts out 14.4V and therefore the Adverc attached to it (according to Adverc) can't and doesn't do anything. On longish motoring trips, though, the alternator heats up and the regulator then by design cuts the output, so after an hour the Adverc can and does do its stuff.

External controllers like the Adverc and Sterling are also still useful for adding battery sensing when a split-charge diode is used. Not that that's a factor in my setup, as I have a VSR.

 

[charles_reed]

My little 1GM10 has a recent Hitachi 35A alternator, which puts out 14.4V and therefore the Adverc attached to it (according to Adverc) can't and doesn't do anything. On longish motoring trips, though, the alternator heats up and the regulator then by design cuts the output, so after an hour the Adverc can and does do its stuff.

External controllers like the Adverc and Sterling are also still useful for adding battery sensing when a split-charge diode is used. Not that that's a factor in my setup, as I have a VSR.

Interesting as that's very much the feedback I'm getting from Adverc - you don't need one with a modern alternator.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Interesting as that's very much the feedback I'm getting from Adverc - you don't need one with a modern alternator.

Well, sort of. It depends on your modern alternator and is definitely worthwhile if you have a split-charge diode. It also depends on what sort of battery you have.