MOB Safety Stuff - Not Lifejackets!

[trapezeartist]

What is the best way to organise lifebuoys, danbuoys, etc? I'm thinking of sensible levels of equipment, aimed at increasing the chance of a successful to the maximum we can hope for. My own thoughts, but very open to be persuaded by reasoned argument:

Danbuoy: quite important as a marker of where the MOB went in. Needs to be easy to unhook from the rail so it can go over the side fast. Not tied on.

Horseshoe buoy: extra buoyancy for the MOB, but he should be wearing a lifejacket anyway. Should it be loose or attached to the boat? If it's loose, you only have one chance to land it near the MOB. Perhaps it's better on a long floating line so it can be recovered if the first throw misses, and also can be used to pull the casualty back in.

Lifesling: Isn't this the same as the horseshoe buoy on a long line? Why add this as well?

Heaving line: Important if the horseshoe buoy is loose. Duplication if the horseshoe buoy is already on a line.

Floating light: Our boat came with a light attached to the horseshoe buoy, which itself was free of the boat. I'm inclined to think it is better keeping it entirely loose so it can be thrown in independently as a marker, or maybe attaching it to the danbuoy.

MOB button on chartplotter: Easily forgotten in the heat of the moment, but very important that it is pressed at the earliest possible opportunity. Another reason why it is best to have the plotter at the helm, not at the chart table.

Mayday button on VHF: At the bottom of the pile in terms of timing, I think. Any rescuer is likely to take at least half an hour to arrive. What difference does a minute make? On the other hand a one minute delay on the MOB button means you're searching 150m out of position.

 

[Stork_III]

Lifebouy (something for MOB to hang onto), with light fix to it (so MOD & boat can, maybe, see it), with danbouy fix to it (so MOD & boat can, better chance, see it). Lifesling (independant) when you know where MOD is, & can actively get MOB to boat, whether you can get on board is different matter.

MOB button first line of recovery.
Does any VHF have mayday button? unless you mean DSC button.

 

[Kelpie]

There was a page in PBO recently about this, was there not?
Personally, I'd be interested in the inflatable personal danbuoys- I always thought a huge flaw in the danbuoy system was that you need somebody to throw it in at the same time as the MOB....

 

[dmmbruce]

I agree with Stork

 

[lw395]

Horseshoe has light attached by floating line.
Also a small drogue.
One of them also has the danbuoy on it.
Not attached to boat, drill is get the horseshoe over the side immediately. If it's dark, casualty swims to buoy/light, yacht has something to aim at.

The floating line gives you something to grapple with the boathook.

A trailling lifesling is a good recovery method, but a separate bit of kit altogether.


It's worth a practice to make sure the lights and drogues actually deploy and don't tangle with the yacht. A weight on the drogue helps sometimes.

To be much use, the horseshoe must be in reach of the helmsman, so if the steering position is well forward, you may need to use a different system.

On my last boat I had 'posh' horseshoes kept indoors except when on passage, and left the old ones in the holders when in the marina.

A throwing line in a bag should also be in the cockpit ready. Again I had a scruffy old one on deck 24/7 and a new one which went on the pushpit before leaving.

 

[planteater]

A weighted throwing line is easier to deploy and retrieve than a lifebuoy with light, drogue, danbuoy etc. attached. For that reason, I keep one in addition to horseshoe.

 

[jwilson]

Charter coding, according to my surveyor, requires amongst other things one biggish danbuoy, with line between it and horseshoe buoy and light, and a drogue, all connected together. My danbuoy also has it's own light, so two lights go over. Inevitably, however, in order to keep these various items secure they have to be attached, to three separate clips/mounts, with elastic lines. By the time you have got everything unclipped and over the side you could be quite some way off the mob. You might well be better placed just getting one item off fast, particularly if you are not able to crash stop (ie spinnaker up or preventers rigged).

I keep thinking that everything could be made up enclosed in a neat case mounted on the rail, with one pull of a big red tab to drop all overboard, to include auto-inflating danbuoy and lifebuoy. All these are individually available, but not as a one-pull deployment unit.

 

[timbartlett]

MOB button on chartplotter: Easily forgotten in the heat of the moment, but very important that it is pressed at the earliest possible opportunity....a one minute delay on the MOB button means you're searching 150m out of position.

If you are using the MoB button on a GPS or plotter to get back to the casualty, perhaps your first move should be to throw him an anchor! Because unless he is anchored, then in a moderate tidal stream, if it takes you two minutes to get back to the marked MoB position, the casualty may well be 150m away.

 

[tcm]

mob

I've had an mob or two in the atlantic. You have to keep them a bit quiet (if successful recovery, as they were) so as not to freak people out onshore. I wd not favour an automatic instant Mayday, really.

Recent one was midday, not much sail up, just a turn round and gettim, so not massive issue. It takes enormous discipline to point at the MOB and do nothing else.

Anyway, i have everyone wear a flashing beacon on their arm from afternoon onwards. The very best chance for MOB is you actually picking the guy up, and very fast, and to do that it means he needs a light. The wristmounted ones are easy to wear 24/7.

With spinnaker up at 8knots plus i wouldn't mind having a go at just engine on and reverse up attim but brief attempt shows it ships a lot of water over the stern so i bet t won't really work. Otherwise i suppose it's time to wreck the sail and just go around anyway. I pretty much favour near-instant attempt as possible to go gettem and to hell with the sail/rig.

Tim's point about the MOB button very valid - the little red thingy in the water is exactly where he definitely isn't, and if downwind i suppose you run over and kill the mob on the way back upwind. Good feature eh?

There are systems i hear (swiss?) that transmit from the mob but this means it has to keep working, rathr than (as with Raytag) just work the once.

Incidentally, lots of the mob kit mentioned by the OP is extremely prone to UV damage and general knackeredness from being at sea - it's built down to a price as anything else. Replacing the 9V battery on the danbuoy just the start - the floating lights go poxy for example and some of the floting line disintegrates. So if gentle daytime cruising or away from the boat i put it all away. The cage for the danbuoy also disnintegrates/rusts. Rubbish.

I also have the PLB's which (if mcmurdo) need a bit of retro-sorting - the little lanyard very rippable (try it in the shop!) so unscrew the unit from battery and attach the lanyard direct to the body and throw away the little rubbish bit of plastic. They all have one of these so if they go in with one the idea is that we satfone call Falmouth and hope the guy is transmitting.

I am gonna sort my stuff again with elastics but none of this is straightforward - one on the helm, one pointing, one in the water and one asleep used up a crew of four total so who's gonna lob the gear?

Duplication is not probelm with all this ear as of course te first throw is miles off.

 

[blackdogsailing]

It's worth a practice to make sure the lights and drogues actually deploy and don't tangle with the yacht.

How very very true. The common faults I have found or have heard about are:
Horseshoes having their open ends connected around the bracket so they won't deploy.
drogues similarly attached with a line through the bracket.
danbuoys that you can't remove at all ! (stuck)
Lights with the lenses full of water and not working.

It is well worth testing everything every so often. One more thing, a lot of boats have the horseshoe lights facing inboard. It is better to have them facing aft so the pull from the lifebuoy is working directly onto the light clip. I have seen a horeshoe thrown over the stern only for the light to remain stubbornly in its holder as there was not enough pull force on it !

Chris

 

[npf1]

" keep thinking that everything could be made up enclosed in a neat case mounted on the rail, with one pull of a big red tab to drop all overboard, to include auto-inflating danbuoy and lifebuoy. All these are individually available, but not as a one-pull deployment unit."

Such a device has been available for years here: http://www.mailspeedmarine.com/man-over-board/ocean-safety/jonbuoy-recovery-module-white857139.bhtml

Any thoughts on why these aren't on many boats? After all, there's not a lot of differencein cost when compared to all the things that it replaces.

 

[Ubergeekian]

If you are using the MoB button on a GPS or plotter to get back to the casualty, perhaps your first move should be to throw him an anchor! Because unless he is anchored, then in a moderate tidal stream, if it takes you two minutes to get back to the marked MoB position, the casualty may well be 150m away.

B...b...b...b...but it's technology. And technology always works. We all know that. All you have to do if someone goes overboard is press the MOB and DSC buttons, and someone will come and help.

 

[trapezeartist]

As I suspected, there's no one simple answer but I will carefully weigh up all the answers before re-kitting our boat for the spring. Thank you, gentlemen.

While I would never suggest that the MOB button is a cure-all, I think it is a valuable contribution to MOB recovery. Hitting the button promptly is important. I also think it can be more accurate than a couple of posters imply. The system on Tickety Boo (Raymarine C70) returns to the MOB by dead reckoning, so if the boat and the MOB both respond to wind and current/tide in the same way, it will be dead on. I don't know if other plotters work the same way.

 

[sarabande]

donkeys ears ago in the RORC scene, we had a couple of plastic (marley) drainpipe tubes in which were inserted a danbouy, a LJ, a long plastic float (? polyzoate), and a strong torch / xenon flasher. The drainpipes were installed just inboard of the stanchions.

The kit was activated by chucking overboard a drogue about the size of a dinner plate, which was located in a special canvas pocket (no expense spared !) on the guardrails by the hatchway from the cockpit. This pulled out a stopper cord (elastic band) and all the gear then streamed out sequentially and not in a confused heap. Just one action released all the MOB kit.

it didn't look very good but was dead easy to check, and service. Unthinkable in todays racing boats perhaps, unless it was built in from the transom.

 

[jwilson]

" keep thinking that everything could be made up enclosed in a neat case mounted on the rail, with one pull of a big red tab to drop all overboard, to include auto-inflating danbuoy and lifebuoy. All these are individually available, but not as a one-pull deployment unit."

Such a device has been available for years here: http://www.mailspeedmarine.com/man-over-board/ocean-safety/jonbuoy-recovery-module-white857139.bhtml

Yes - I even tested what must have been an early version about 15 years ago - but it was OTT - the lifebuoy was more like a mini liferaft. And very expensive. The test of the Jonbuoy (I seem to remember the name) was part of practical MOB exercises with real people, where the main problem was always how to actually get an unconscious person aboard. On a high-freeboard boat it almost inevitably ends up with someone else going into the water.

 

[prv]

" keep thinking that everything could be made up enclosed in a neat case mounted on the rail, with one pull of a big red tab to drop all overboard, to include auto-inflating danbuoy and lifebuoy. All these are individually available, but not as a one-pull deployment unit."

Such a device has been available for years here: http://www.mailspeedmarine.com/man-over-board/ocean-safety/jonbuoy-recovery-module-white857139.bhtml

Yep - on one of my TSYT voyages they showed us a video of them just in case we ever needed to use one (the ships have two over the stern rail). At that point I decided that if I ever had a yacht I would have one. Not only does it get all the important stuff in the water with one pull, it also stows it all neatly inside a plastic shell where it is not being UV-degraded, tangled round other gear, scuffed against walls, and tangled some more so that you cannot launch it quickly.

Now I do have a yacht, but shared with my retired father who doesn't want one. I showed it to him at the Boat Show, and he thinks it's "over the top", will ruin the look of the boat, and is too bulky. Not sure where he thinks he's going to stow separate foam horseshoe, dan buoy, drogue, light and lifting strop - the dan buoy in particular is a problem as KS is a yawl whose boom sweeps both quarters. Maybe no-one carried dan buoys in the 70s when he last did any serious sailing?

I'm going to get a jon buoy anyway. I just don't have any faith in his speed at getting the traditional bag of pig's knitting into the water quickly enough if my mum were to fall off the foredeck while they were out. The only feasible stowage for this stuff is aft of the cockpit, and the length of the tiller puts you near the front. His knees for leaping around boats aren't what they were. When I fit a jon buoy I'm going to add a simple remote release (not their overcomplicated system) with a pull-handle in the cockpit.

Pete

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Surely the point of the MOB button is that it gives a position fix on where the person went overboard. If all else fails you've got something to pass to SAR chaps to give them a start. They can be remarkably good at predicting where something will end up.

The one thing I'd like to see is 121.5MHz DF gear that actually and reliably works available on the leisure market - that would make a PLB really useful (unless you were single-handing I guess).

 

[prv]

The one thing I'd like to see is 121.5MHz DF gear that actually and reliably works available on the leisure market - that would make a PLB really useful (unless you were single-handing I guess).

It does exist, but the systems I've seen all have aerials that are much larger than I would be prepared to fit on a normal-sized yacht. Due to the nature of the task, I suppose, they have to be quite bulky. Could possibly work on a big stinkpot.

Pete

 

[prv]

I keep thinking that everything could be made up enclosed in a neat case mounted on the rail, with one pull of a big red tab to drop all overboard, to include auto-inflating danbuoy and lifebuoy. All these are individually available, but not as a one-pull deployment unit.

The Jon Buoy people at the Boat Show told me they are about to release something like this, as a halfway house to the Jon Buoy itself. Packed in a small fibreglass tube. I got the impression it would still need to be thrown by hand rather than launched via a tab or button, but it would be a lot easier to do that than handle the traditional four parts and their associated string.

Pete