MOB Epirb Mayday

[Roberto]

After all these Mayday procedure threads, suppose the following:

You are sailing offshore, say 100+miles from the coast, or outside of VHF range anyway.
Man overboard, after a bit of circling you lose sight of the unfortunate person. The water is warm, so hypothermia risk leaves quite a few hours of hope.
You try to send a VHF Mayday in case there is a ship around, but no acknowledgement.
You write it on the log book.
Then:

Would you activate the epirb ?
Would you remain in the area ? For how long ?
What other things would you deem appropriate or sensible to do ?


Would your course of action change in case of different distances from the coast? for example would you do something different in the middle of the ocean in respect to being 50-60 miles offshore (in which case in a few hours sail you could be inside VHF coverage for example ?

 

[Seajet]

Definitely fire off the EPIRB, and stay searching until all hope is gone, then stay a bit more; hopefully one will have been joined in the search.

 

[npf1]

I think i'd start wishing I had one of these fitted http://www.rhotheta.com/direction-finders/index.html and that the casualty has made it into the JonBouy that I'd hopefully swiftly deployed as soon as the incident happenned.

 

[wooslehunter]

Rhotheta DFs are a great bit of kit provided they have something to DF. If your casualty had a handheld VHF or EPIRB, then great. If the Jonbuoy had an EPIRB then it woud have set off anyway.

Something to be said for carrying a hand held VHF. The chances are someone in the water would see the yacht even if the yacht couldn't see the person. Or, how about a day/night flare? Much shorter duration but lots of smoke or light.

Agree with Seajet though. Set off the EPIRB & search, then search some more.

 

[Sans Bateau]

On the point of coms, to start with, I think I might want something a little better than just a VHF if I were going to go beyond 100 miles offshore.

 

[Reverend Ludd]

Definitely fire off the EPIRB, and stay searching until all hope is gone, then stay a bit more; hopefully one will have been joined in the search.

I agree.
I think the new range of personal epirb are well worth a look.

 

[Simondjuk]

It's a difficult question to answer succinctly as it begs the question of how and why you've got far enough away not to have some visual contact with your MOB at best, and don't know even roughly where he is at worst. The exact course of action would also depend on the number of people remaining on board.

Assuming it was just me and one other, or at least there was one other until they fell overboard and left me alone, and I'd returned on deck from the heads to find them gone overboard and out of sight, I'd immediately deploy the danbuoy and heave to. I'd then hit the distress button on the VHF, select a MOB distress, and press and hold. I'd then try a voice mayday, but rather than waste time letting the casualty get more lost whilst trying to speak to people who may not be there to hear me, I'd not hang around waiting long for a reply. If I get one, I'll hear it from the cockpit and deal with should it come. Whilst holding the distress button on the VHF, I'd use my 5 seconds to wisely to hit the MOB button on the chart plotter and note the reciprocal of my recent track. I'd then activate the EPIRB, since my MOB is already lost it's a full blown emergency already.

I'd then return to the helm, start the engine, furl the headsail and centre the main - this isn't the time for sailing exercises. I'd then start either an expanding square or squared zig-zag search, taking into consideration the direction of the tide. Why the danbuoy? If I'm searching finely enough to see my MOB, I should be seeing the danbuoyon occasions at the start of the search and getting slowly further downtide from it as my pattern tracks out from my start point to where the MOB is. If I'm seeing it all the time, I'm probably not going downtide fast enough to find the MOB. If I don't see it at all after the first leg, I've either gone horribly wrong with my search pattern or am searching on too coarse a pattern to spot them.


Hopefully, in addition to me looking for them, the MOB would also trigger the PLB they may well be carrying.

 

[Seajet]

I've been thinking a little more about this.

Given the situation outlined, I think I'd also 'deploy' a horseshoe lifebuoy - attached to a drogue of course - with light & danbuoy, if I'd lost sight of the MOB.

This would give a rough datum to work around, ( as well as the MOB fix on the plotter if that is possible ) and with luck the bod in the water might see it and make their way to it; giving flotation and enhanced visibility.

I remember a very experienced friend saying in the days when Decca let alone GPS was but a sci-fi dream for yotties, " throw overboard anything that'll float, cushions, anything, to leave a trail back to the person ".

That advice might still hold good I think; but I wouldn't normally want to be below grabbing stuff - or even entering a MOB position on the plotter initially - if it meant taking my eyes off the MOB position, strikes me this is one of those instances where quick action and staying in visual contact is paramount.

For that reason, unless it's windy I'd still favour the 'gybe immediately' school of MOB thought, rather than the 'reach away, tack, reach back' which is the training gospel now...

 

[Roberto]

very interesting and thought provoking answers, as always


To give another example, we mostly sail single-or-single-and-a-half-handed (+2 very young kids, usually under deck on longer passages), my wife would not remember anything about sailing or navigation, so I told her "if you come out at night and do not see me in the cockpit, first thing you do is look at the compass, add 180° and turn the boat around, set the pilot, roll the genoa, start the engine and go back"
then press the VHF red button, if noone answers activate the epirb, after that slow the boat down to say 2kt but continue on the same course (basically backwards, 180° from the original one).
I cannot reasonably ask nor expect anything more complex, notwithstanding the endless days practicing MOB tricks.
If any of this should not work I would consider myself dead

I think procedures are spread out as the best course of action for a given level of knowledge, but there are a lot of situations in non-commercial boating where a degree of adapting would considerably improve the chances of a better final outcome
question mark...

 

[Seajet]

Roberto,

not pedantic but trying to be helpful - and hoping your wife never needs to use it !

To get a quick 180 degree reciprocal course, the golden rule is ' take away 200, add 20'. If the course figure is lower than 200, 'add 200, take away 20'.

Hope that makes sense...

 

[Reverend Ludd]

We seem to have two schools of thought.
One is to activate the electronics and the other is to swing the boat around first. I don't think either is right as it depends so much on the individual circumstances and the equipment on the boat.
Do you have a sense of when the person went overboard would be the first thing to consider. Is there a storm and little visibility or are you in a Caribbean bay sheltered from winds and waves and popped below for some ice.
So many variables !!

 

[Seajet]

Must say my initial reaction would have to be swing around instantly and do my utmost to keep visual contact and effect a quick rescue.

I'd only pause to set off the EPIRB if I lost visual contact or say the person had gone overboard while running before big wind & waves.

With the best will in the world, it has to be said rescue services would be unlikely to arrive in time, but bearing in mind the above, they should be dragged in ASAP.

This is pretty much assuming the MOB and self are the only people involved; if there were more crew I'd have one keeping a constant eye & pointing to the MOB, and if another spare I'd get them to set off the EPIRB immediately - even if still in visual contact, it can be cancelled later if all works out - and punch the MOB button on the plotter.

 

[Simondjuk]

If I actually saw the person go overboard or could see them in the water, I'd not take my eyes off them and heave to. Single handed in such a situation, the electronics play second fiddle to the most important thing, which is to keep the MOB in sight.

When going upwind, bearing away hard for a moment then heaving to can allow an almost immediate recovery of the MOB as the boat can be stopped abeam and dead upwind of them. Boats inclined to sail on a bit may require a little use of the engine in astern to keep abeam the casualty whilst dropping down. Sailing away to tack and risking losing visual contact with the casualty is madness if you can avoid the need.

 

[Pleiades]

MOB Mayday

Its a matter of life or death so this is exactly what the safety kit is for - EPIRB activation, broadcast Mayday every 5 mins on VHF, fire a red parachute every 15 mins so that the casualty can see that he or she has been missed and other shipping can see you need help as soon as they come within visual range of the para which will be far greater range than seeing your boat. (Your vhf may simply not be transmitting rather than out of range.) Get thinking about the speed and distance equation taking into account your track, course and any current and how long the casualty has been over the side. Plot and log entries - current position and furthest (worst case) possible splash point. Post a lookout as high as they can climb safely - stand someone on the boom perhaps with a harness round the mast. The only realistic hope for the casualty is that you return to where they have drifted to and recover them. If you are out of vhf range from shore a helicopter or lifeboat from shore may only be useful for recovering a body rather than a survivor.
Might be useful to drop two lifebuoys or anything else that might help with orientation until you are confident about your reciprocal course. A recip would be much better than sailing a search box - at least until you have sailed back well beyond the calculated furthest possible splash point. I might not start the engine if light was poor and one was listening intently for a shout or whistle blast from the causalty. Get torches charged up for when light fades, ready the dingy for possible recovery duty and if conditions permit and it is a decent rib with a good outboard consider launching it as an additional seach vessel.
And pray of course, to anyone/thing that takes your fancy even if not previously religious.

Robin
Pleiades of Birdham
MXWQ5

 

[MARGETTS]

.

I'd then return to the helm, start the engine, furl the headsail and centre the main - this isn't the time for sailing exercises. I'd then start either an expanding square or squared zig-zag search, taking into consideration the direction of the tide. Why the danbuoy? If I'm searching finely enough to see my MOB, I should be seeing the danbuoyon occasions at the start of the search and getting slowly further downtide from it as my pattern tracks out from my start point to where the MOB is. If I'm seeing it all the time, I'm probably not going downtide fast enough to find the MOB. If I don't see it at all after the first leg, I've either gone horribly wrong with my search pattern or am searching on too coarse a pattern to spot them.


Hopefully, in addition to me looking for them, the MOB would also trigger the PLB they may well be carrying.

Well thought out but do not that forget your dan buoy is moving downtide at the same rate as you and hence cannot be related to your search pattern.

 

[Simondjuk]

Well thought out but do not that forget your dan buoy is moving downtide at the same rate as you and hence cannot be related to your search pattern.

I didn't explain the last bit very well due to hurrying but thought I'd covered that point in saying "getting slowly further downtide from it [the danbuoy]", as this would mean that I'd be allowing for the fact that both the danbuoy and boat are tide influenced.

What I meant more specifically, is that the danbuoy, which should replicate the movement of the MOB due to tide, provides a reference point. My search would work progressively relatively downtide, away from it, as well as back down my track, as that's where the MOB is since they fell off somewhere along the track and will have gone downtide of that point between falling and me discovering them gone.

If I stop seeing the danbuoy too soon, ie. in the first couple of times it is passed on my relatively uptide beam whilst working away from it, I can be sure that my search pattern is too coarse since the danbuoy is more visible than the MOB, and I'm just as likely to pass either side of them on consecutive sweeps without spotting them once I reach their approximate position. About 0.1 of a mile is a good starting point in flatish water for a search resolution. In any kind of sea, you could miss your MOB a boat length off, and the search becomes very difficult to maintain at sufficiently high resolution and conduct at sufficient speed.

Another use of the danbuoy is to take a back bearing on it as it is worked away from. By using this as an additional reference to your search pattern across your GPS track, you can be certain that your search pattern is reflecting accurately the water track taken by the MOB and not simply following your GPS ground track which will be uptide of the MOB. Of course, it will be necessary to drop downtide relative to the back bearing on the danbuoy and GPS track, since the former went into the water later than the MOB and the latter was recorded earlier than their current position, so both will, in relative terms, be uptide of him or her.

However you specifically use the danbuoy, it serves to provide a good tide influenced reference point for to the initial search direction and a reasonably visible marker from which to recommence the search should things become confused, as they are often want to do in such situations.

 

[Seajet]

Hence my saying the danbuoy to be used as a search datum...

 

[fisherman]

taking into consideration the direction of the tide. .

The tide acts on both boat and mob, so disregard it. The wind only affects the boat.

We had this argument when two of us went overboard in 1974.
"Why didn't you chuck the lifebuoy?" (he saw us go, and was nearer the stern than us)
"Because the tide would have taken it away from you"

"My dear chap, you're talking absolute balderdollocks!" or words to that effect.

Sorry, what Margetts said...

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

After all these Mayday procedure threads, suppose the following:

You are sailing offshore, say 100+miles from the coast, or outside of VHF range anyway.
Man overboard, after a bit of circling you lose sight of the unfortunate person. The water is warm, so hypothermia risk leaves quite a few hours of hope.
You try to send a VHF Mayday in case there is a ship around, but no acknowledgement.
You write it on the log book.
Then:

Would you activate the epirb ?
Would you remain in the area ? For how long ?
What other things would you deem appropriate or sensible to do ?


Would your course of action change in case of different distances from the coast? for example would you do something different in the middle of the ocean in respect to being 50-60 miles offshore (in which case in a few hours sail you could be inside VHF coverage for example ?

I've given this a bit of thought in the past.
My thoughts are to immediatly depower the sails ignoring any 'flogging', throw any physical method of keeping MOB in view such a danbuoy etc...asap activate the EPIRB and throw it towards MOB and activate the DSC and MOB buttons on the radio and plotter just in case VHF can be received.
If there are other crew assign a look-out.
Don't wait to to this to discover you cannot retrieve or may lose sight the MOB.

In very rough conditions some years ago, with driving rain approaching dusk, swmbo and I lost an inflatable when it got loose(I never tow now). We were amazed at how quickly we lost site of it and since then have practiced routines to employ, just in case of an MOB.

However, the best way is to put into good practice all the ways of not being able to be swept over in the first place!

 

[ithet]

As Simondjuk and Seajet say its important to get a reference marker into the water at the best estimated MOB position ASAP. That gives you something to baseline a search on. A proper dan-buoy will move down tide at a similar rate to MOB. Failing that put out a fender or two. Why not attach the EPIRB to the dan buoy also, or just chuck it in the sea? It's more useful near the MOB than on board now - any later rescue attempt can use it, you cannot.

A box search is done around a floating reference mark, so tide can be ignored. Your initial circuit is done at the distance you can just see the bottom of the buoy, and you increase by this distance each circuit.

In strict answer to the OP question, after the failed seach and no radio contact. That would be the (too late) time to activate and DEPLOY the EPIRB and danbuoy or other floaty device. Also deploy the liferaft - MOB might get to it. Then head inshore to make radio contact.