Mixed anchor rode

[Neeves]

There was an interesting article on anchoring from YM on mixed rodes

Best anchoring lines: 6 of the best ropes to hold your boat steady - YBW

It raised a couple of questions in my mind

Are mixed rodes still common (the yacht used as part of the illustration appeared 'quite big', not to have a windlass (but maybe it was staged - as the bow is cropped off for the picture)

and secondly -

The focus on the recommendations for the textile portion appeared to focus on ropes that incorporate lead into the construction. I've never used such rope (nor actually recall seeing it). Again - is it common place has anyone experience in using it.

Part of the reason for not using a mixed rode is that the textile portion can be subject to abrasion - adding lead to the rode might exacerbate the issue.

Jonathan

 

[Tranona]

First, I think the boat does have a windlass. Sailtime is a shared ownership organisation and boats are well specced! Looks more dramatic with hunk doing the hauling!

Mixed rodes are common for 2 reasons. First many folks never anchor other than lunch stops so (unlike on forums!) anchors, chains, rope etc is a non subject and second most anchoring is in relatively shallow water in benign conditions.

Before the stalwarts take me to task, of course many do anchor seriously around UK waters and have the gear to do it properly, but they are probably a minority.

Leaded ropes (as the article says) are popular with small day boats, runabouts, RIBs etc because they allow catenary without having heavy, dirty chain . As the photo shows, often carried in dedicated bags. I carry my light kedge like that, although with chain and nylon rather than leaded. Don't think leaded would be used on a permanent mixed rode on a yacht - normally Octoplait or 3 strand, spliced to chain. Modern windlasses are sold on the basis they will handle rope/chain seamlessly, although actually stowing rope as it comes off the gypsy can be problematic.

For the type of use these rope and leaded rodes would be used, abrasion would not really be a problem.

 

[Neeves]

Thanks Tranona.

The misleading key, for me, was the yacht in the article, and not knowing who/what Sailtime was. I had assumed the article was about 'yachts' not RIBs. In fact I actually thought the article might be focusing on 'starter yachts' (which seemed a good focus). As such the article was referring to 24' 'cruisers' (which are actually a dying breed here in Oz - unless they are of the manky and ancient version - and have a role as 'projects'.)

Wrong again

Its reassuring to have the correction from a reliable source.

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan

 

[Dutch01527]

I use a mixed rode with 8mm chain and 14mm leaded polysteel all of which goes seamlessly through my windlass. 30 metres of chain and 50 metres of polysteel. Boat is 28 foot and in the Bristol Channel.

Leaded polysteel is used by commercial fishermen and is very strong (4,600kg breaking strain), abrasion resistant and cheap at just over £1 / metre.

My lunch hook rode is all polysteel.

 

[Stemar]

If you haven't got a windlass, I reckon a mixed rode is a no brainer. It allows you to anchor in deeper water without putting your back at risk and gives shock absorption in poor conditions, which all chain won't once it's stretched tight. Then there's the weight in the bow issue isn't a big deal for most cruisers, but would be on a smaller boat or a racer.

In fact, the only time I can see an advantage to all chain is when you're anchoring on an abrasive bottom like coral, or your windlass can't handle both. I can see a use for weighted line for a kedge or all rope, but not in a mixed rode. You've already got the weight you want in the chain part, why add to it? it isn't as if it will add much to the catenary.

 

[Neeves]

I use a mixed rode with 8mm chain and 14mm leaded polysteel all of which goes seamlessly through my windlass. 30 metres of chain and 50 metres of polysteel. Boat is 28 foot and in the Bristol Channel.

Leaded polysteel is used by commercial fishermen and is very strong (4,600kg breaking strain), abrasion resistant and cheap at just over £1 / metre.

My lunch hook rode is all polysteel.

Thanks for the reply, from a user

But why the 8mm chain - except that's what you rewindlass dicates.

Or to ask the question another way - if given a free choice would you have chosen 6mm (more of it) and the leaded textile rode.

Jonathan

 

[Amlov]

With a mixed rode I have always wondered about the life expectancy of the rope part of it. In my simple world I can believe that chain be used until it is visibly worn or rusted, but I’ve no idea when or how often the rope element needs to be changed. Certainly climbing ropes have a fixed life span and I imagine nylon anchoring rope must do as well - but what is it?

So the simple question must be, what is the maximum life span of nylon, or polyester, anchor rode? I know there is endless debate about the relative strengths of other elements in the anchor system, but rarely do I see any consideration of possible deterioration of rope.

 

[Dutch01527]

Thanks for the reply, from a user

But why the 8mm chain - except that's what you rewindlass dicates.

Or to ask the question another way - if given a free choice would you have chosen 6mm (more of it) and the leaded textile rode.

Jonathan

Happy with the mix I have. 8mm chain is the recommended size for a 8 to 10m boat and gives catenary shock load damping. Polysteel allows me to extend the length, without too much weight, which is needed for the Bristol Channel. I tend to over size anchoring gear for peace of mind when the wind is howling onto a lee shore.

 

[BabaYaga]

With a mixed rode I have always wondered about the life expectancy of the rope part of it.

I have a mixed rode on a 9m sailing boat, 3.6 tons, no windlass. It is made up of 20m of 8mm chain followed by 45 m of 14mm octoplait nylon rope. After 12 years of use, the only section of the nylon showing some wear (not too serious) is the first few metres after the chain. I am quite sure this is from contact with the bow roller, as the nylon will only occasionally touch the seabed.
I am thinking now about reversing the rope section of the rode, in order to get at least another 12 years out of it.

 

[Stemar]

The octoplait on Jissel wasn't new when I bought the boat in 2003. It was still going strong when I sold her earlier this year. Yes, I checked it regularly, but it never suffered any damage. It was just starting to get a little fuzzy in places, so probably not quite as strong as when new, but I reckon it was still strong enough to pick the boat up.

 

[johnalison]

We were happy with a mixed rode on our Sadler 29 for many years once we realised that it is necessary to suspend a weight a couple of metres down the line to prevent it fouling the keel with change of tide.

 

[Neeves]

We were happy with a mixed rode on our Sadler 29 for many years once we realised that it is necessary to suspend a weight a couple of metres down the line to prevent it fouling the keel with change of tide.

Ah!

If you had be prescient - you would have used a lead weighted textile portion

Jonathan

 

[geem]

There was an interesting article on anchoring from YM on mixed rodes

Best anchoring lines: 6 of the best ropes to hold your boat steady - YBW

It raised a couple of questions in my mind

Are mixed rodes still common (the yacht used as part of the illustration appeared 'quite big', not to have a windlass (but maybe it was staged - as the bow is cropped off for the picture)

and secondly -

The focus on the recommendations for the textile portion appeared to focus on ropes that incorporate lead into the construction. I've never used such rope (nor actually recall seeing it). Again - is it common place has anyone experience in using it.

Part of the reason for not using a mixed rode is that the textile portion can be subject to abrasion - adding lead to the rode might exacerbate the issue.

Jonathan

We were given a leaded line that's about 60 ft long. The first 30ft is leaded. It's a dinghy anchor line that we use. I have never seen one commercially for sale.
It nicer than having chain on the dinghy anchor as it's easy to handle and stows easily in the bag

 

[Birdseye]

There was an interesting article on anchoring from YM on mixed rodes

Best anchoring lines: 6 of the best ropes to hold your boat steady - YBW

It raised a couple of questions in my mind

Are mixed rodes still common (the yacht used as part of the illustration appeared 'quite big', not to have a windlass (but maybe it was staged - as the bow is cropped off for the picture)

and secondly -

The focus on the recommendations for the textile portion appeared to focus on ropes that incorporate lead into the construction. I've never used such rope (nor actually recall seeing it). Again - is it common place has anyone experience in using it.

Part of the reason for not using a mixed rode is that the textile portion can be subject to abrasion - adding lead to the rode might exacerbate the issue.

Jonathan

At one of my clubs in the Bristol channel we use leaded polyprop rope for permanent moorings without issue. OK the moorings are in soft mud rather than rock but no problems.

Rope with lead wires in it is too still to use for an anchor rode IMO. I always throught that the idea of a mixed rode was that the chain at the bottom would deal with abrasion whilst the nylon at the boat end would allow stretch. Might be anti social but its certainly best in situations where an all chain rode loses its catenary and you get shock loadings.

 

[Bristolfashion]

We use a mixed rode (7mm chain, 12mm rope) and find it extremely good.

 

[Neeves]

At one of my clubs in the Bristol channel we use leaded polyprop rope for permanent moorings without issue. OK the moorings are in soft mud rather than rock but no problems.

Rope with lead wires in it is too still to use for an anchor rode IMO. I always throught that the idea of a mixed rode was that the chain at the bottom would deal with abrasion whilst the nylon at the boat end would allow stretch. Might be anti social but its certainly best in situations where an all chain rode loses its catenary and you get shock loadings.

I don't see anything antisocial about using a mixed rode - though I understand your comment. When we enter a crowded anchorage you can see those using a rope rode (its 'different in 'view' from chain) and we make allowances - even if nothing else they were there first and have 'rights'. But an answer is smaller chain, maybe high tensile (I understand Jimmy Green sells 6mm HT, but says there is no demand (I asked them). Though not necessarily HT as many seem to carry chain much stronger (and heavier) than needed if chosen for strength - but offset using smaller chain with a snubber.

Snubbers are just another form of a mixed rode in a different 'arrangement'.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

We use a mixed rode (7mm chain, 12mm rope) and find it extremely good.

I cannot say or suggest that a mixed rode is 'not good'. It was used for decades before the advent of the electric windlass - and if it was good enough 40 years, or more, ago - its good enough now. As I say in the preceding post - we use a mixed rode - just in a different arrangement to normal and the textile part has been renamed as a snubber (or in our case) a bridle.

The thread was really enquiring as to how many used mixed rodes, - more than I might have thought and secondly opinions on lead in the textile.

Thanks for the replies - educational.

Jonathan

 

[Rappey]

A problem does exist on many yachts using mixed rodes - recovery.
The rope part is virtually impossible to get down the chain pipe with a verticle windlass with interior anchor locker access, whereas all chain is no problem.
Maybe leaded line is weighty enough to fall down the chain pipe ?

 

[TC Tuckton]

My experience is limited. On one occasion the rope part of a mixed rode went between the the bilge keels, abraded on the prop and parted. That occasion was at night waiting for the tide outside Wells Next the Sea; with an anchor watch. I have no wish to repeat the experience.

 

[Neeves]

My experience is limited. On one occasion the rope part of a mixed rode went between the the bilge keels, abraded on the prop and parted. That occasion was at night waiting for the tide outside Wells Next the Sea; with an anchor watch. I have no wish to repeat the experience.

It happens with chain, of the recommended weight. We were anchored in a channel with 5 knots tides, or current. We were sheltering from a gale which added to the tide or opposed it. When the tide and wind were combined the rode stretched from the bow - no problem. When the tide reversed the chain stretched as straight as a billiard queue under and between the two hulls. It did not wrap round anything but removed all the AF where and when ever it rubbed.

We should, perhaps, have rigged a Bahamian moor or maybe shore lines. Launching a dinghy with 5 knot tides, gale force winds (slightly reduced by shelter) and a 2hp motor was rejected.

Jonathan