Miserable Salesmen

[Salty]

Reading the DailySail today there was an interesting article from a guy comparing the yachtie and stinkie sections of the LBS, essentially concluding that while the powerboating crowd had completely got into selling the lifestyle and the glitz, the yacht stands rely too much on refinement and 'blue blazer'.

I thought that interesting because for the last couple of years I've been peed off with the attitude of many of the people on the yacht stands at the London show, which seems to be that unless you're actively waving a chequebook, they won't even pass the time of day. Now no doubt spending days on end talking to hopeless daydreamers must be a depressing way of spending a couple of weeks in an aircraft hangar in East London, but the people selling bits and pieces manage it with good grace and so do those selling powerboats.

Fair enough, this show I wasn't a buyer (not of a new boat anyway), but is it going to endear me to a manufacturer with a potential future purchase when they're downright rude to me at the show? On one occasion I started to walk up the steps to look at a boat a previous model of which I'd done two Fastnets aboard. 'Oi, where do you think you're going' shouted the man in the blazer (whom I hadn't noticed before). When I explained I was interested in looking at the boat's deck layout compared to the one I was familiar with, he just grunted some kind of permission and walked away. While this was the worst example, there were plenty of others where I was met with less than complete enthusiasm. For the record I was dressed smartly (I came from work) and wearing yacht club tie, so presumably didn't look like a complete timewaster.

I had a sniff round the powerboats and the approach couldn't have been more different, invited onboard without asking, glasses of wine proferred, etc.

Two questions i) why the difference between sail and power? Both are trying to sell their wares at the end of the day ii) if salesmen can't accept that the LBS is sold as a complete on-the-water lifestyle show (with expensive tickets to boot) and therefore there will be a very high percentage of daydreamers for any prospective purchaser, why are they wasting their time at the show?

 

[aluijten]

The funny thing is that I just have had the opposite experience at the Düsseldorf Boat Show. There the Raggies were much more down to earth as the the MoBo's were. I had no problem entering any of the Yachts I wanted to see, although many were way over my budget. The MoBo's were very much into showing lifestyle and the audience looked quite different. I actually saw women with semi-high-heels entering boats there (as far as I could tell they did look expensive though/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif).
The whole atmosphere at the MoBo section was much more 'exclusive' then at the yachts.
The best hall obviousy was the SuperYacht hall. The people that were guided around on these boats (on average 2500 Horsepower, I guess) were quite amusing to look at /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Arno

 

[Talbot]

There is no excuse for being nasty at any time. There is even less excuse when the people who want to look may possibly be future purchasers, may be not this year or even next, but in the future. Even those who are only ever likely to be able to purchase second hand should be welcomed with open arms, Why, because a buoyant second hand market in a specific model encourages sales in new ones. So these idiots are cutting their own throats, cause pissed off prospective owners are unlikely to return, and a sagging second hand market will damage new sails.

 

[jfm]

Agree all your comments. I have owned/do own both sailboats and mobos, so I visited both halves of LBS. I found the mobo salesmen much more welcoming and I had no problem getting on board every mobo I wanted to see. The sailboat sellers were often difficult, insisted on appointments even if the thing they were selling didn't seem full and wasn't particularly expensive. Staff on the big Jeanneau stand were ok though.

If anything I think the mobo sellers have seen the light and got more welcoming the last few years. 2005 was the best ever year for them on this behaviour front, imho. Sailboat salesman have remained generally remained the same - I remeber not being allowed on the biggest Grand Soleil at the 2004 show unless I "come back next Tuesday" or something

 

[iangrant]

I didn't buy a Moody at the London boat show a couple of years back, certainly would have been a possible but sadly I hadn't made an appointment and the woman on the stand was so rude.
So I couldn't look at one..didn't buy one - still never mind -

Ian

 

[dedwards]

I didn't go on any of the big sailboats this year but I have to commend the Macgregor salesman. We hardly looked like prospective buyers (young couple in jeans n jumpers) and we told him that we were dreaming of buying a trailersailer in a couple of years time but the salesman happily gave us a thorough guided tour and answered all of our (stupid) questions in a way that had us both walking away very impressed with him and the boat. if/when we have the money their boat is going to be the first that we testsail

it sounds like the larger manufacturers have a thing or two to learn from the smaller fish.

 

[Talbot]

Its possibly the only way they can get people to buy Macgregors /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

- you will find a lot of detrimental views on these on this forum, however every boat is a compromise, and if the mac 26 is your style of compromise, good luck to you, but buy 2nd hand cause there are a lot on the market.

 

[StellaGirl]

My secret...!

Ah you see....smile sweetly, flutter your eyelashes and say "dont I recognise you from a magazine? Do you sail on.....?" and you can be assured of exclusive viewings and to be treated like royalty!

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Re: My secret...!

"flutter your eyelashes"

I reckon we should get Tome to try that at SIBS next year... see if we can get the Jenneau sales guy to thump him......

 

[jonic]

Hello all

While we wait for the B**!T@*D insurers to finally pay up for our Hurricane Ivan wrecked boat (almost five months) I have been selling new Dufours and worked LIBS. We tried to give time to everybody. loyalty is built over time and through good experiences even when not buying.

BUT, the cost per hour to exhibit at the boatshow is horrific and must not be underestimated. Priority must be given to serious buyers who have been in discussion through the year, so dreamers sometimes may need to be given shorter time aboard at busy periods.

Having said that it must be done with politeness and care. I tried to give out my personal website to them to show the dream can be achieved. It was great to see them go off with a new glint in their eyes and I enjoyed that as much as selling the boats.

We even let fatipa on the stand!

 

[npf1]

Perhaps the differences are ultimately a result of why these guys are in business. I alway get the impression thatt many of the people in sailing related businesses are in for the lifestyle first and money second. Hence, their 'different' approach to business.

The mobo lot have always seemed to me to be far more serious about the business angle and are therefore more 'advanced' and professional in their approach.

Sweeping generalisations maybe. What do you reckon?

 

[gandy]

"I actually saw women with semi-high-heels entering boats there (as far as I could tell they did look expensive though)."

The women, or the boats?

Tony S

 

[jfm]

Jonic:
You say: "Priority must be given to serious buyers who have been in discussion through the year, so dreamers sometimes may need to be given shorter time". How do you decide who is a dreamer or not? Do salesfolk do this by instinct? Is there training for it?

There's a clue in your post: "been in discussions through the year". Is that how you tell a serious buyer? It sounds more like a tyre kicker/dreamer to me. When we bought our last boat 12mths ago, the time from our first out-of-blue call to salesman, to signing the first build installment payment, was less than 4 weeks (and I feel we rather dithered a bit...!).

Seriously, are there techniques, rules of thumb, whatever, that salesfolk use?

Your reply is a bit defensive of your techniques, but you gotta wake and smell a bit of coffee here - mobo salesmen really were more welcoming overall at LIBS, and they're outselling sailboats big time. Surely that's not all coincidence. Could sailboat salesfolk learn something here?

 

[jonjo]

Bad salesmen develop an over refined picture of the type of customer who is right for their product. The real pro's will know from experience that all sorts of unlikely characters might surprise them with a cheque book.

The best and worst salesmen I encountered at LIBS 2004 were the owner reps. The Bavaria-Opal ones were hopeless but the Hanse guy was on top form and a real asset for the brand.

 

[Birdseye]

I must have gone on every sailing boat at the show in the 35/40ft range, and despite jeans and an old jumper I had no problem. All the salesmen were polite and interested. Even the one we first started discussing new boats with a year or more ago. So I reckon it was the smart clothes and yacht club tie that screamed "tyre kicker" (or should it be fender kicker?)

Got to smile at JFM's comment about the 4 weeks. My wife would approve. It'll take me that long to sign the cheque!

 

[VicMallows]

You're right. Nearly always at Southampton I'll be in shorts and t-shirt and have never had a problem. After all, do you see many people sailing in suits?

Vic

 

[Salty]

Fair enough at Southampton, but for obvious reasons there are quite a few suits midweek at the London show. I couldn't be bothered to change into jeans and t-shirt just to go to the boat show, and then back again to return to the office. Do you see many people sailing in suits? No, but I don't see many people sailing in London either. And you don't answer the point that the MoBo crowd were polite and welcoming, the yachties weren't. Some inverse snobbery there? Sorry, I thought the point of participating in an expensive trade show was to sell product, not for the reps to indulge whatever prejudices they enjoy about different customers.

For the record, I do enjoy the Southampton show more, and casually dressed haven't had the experiences I've had in London. But what the hell does that imply? Yachties won't pass the time of day with people dressed in a whistle? If it's that yachtie reps have pre-conceived ideas about the type of people who go sailing in their boats, then I don't think that's very healthy for their business or the sport compared to the MoBo crowd who seem to welcome anyone, whether wearing deck shoes, shell-suit or a tie. Fact is, and as a sailor it pains me to say it, the MoBo part of the show was more fun, and certainly judging by the people in that half of tha hall, more inclusive.

Incidentally, I'm thinking of buying a sailing dinghy for the kids this summer and the people on the dinghy stands, particularly a delightful lady on the Porters Wayfarer stand, couldn't have been more helpful. So I don't think it was the suit and tie.

Also for the record, we bought our yacht at the Southampton second hand boat show a couple of years ago, after well... must have been 15 minutes, and I'm not convinced the salesman had the time to work out if we were tyre kickers or not, so just as well he was polite and pleasant or he might have lost a big lump of commission.

 

[jonic]

JFM

" There's a clue in your post: "been in discussions through the year". Is that how you tell a serious buyer? It sounds more like a tyre kicker/dreamer to me. When we bought our last boat 12mths ago, the time from our first out-of-blue call to salesman, to signing the first build installment payment, was less than 4 weeks (and I feel we rather dithered a bit...!). "

Dufour were launching a range with the 365 debuting in the UK, for many people the show is the first time to see the boat and they have been in regular contact through the season, receiving computer generated mock ups and production news. Often changing up from earlier Dufour's. These people were already on our database or had an appointment so Not fender kickers. I also sold three boats to people who had not come to the show to buy a boat and were not even aware of the new range. Signing the first build payments was from half an hour to six days. So it varies, good sales people understand that.

Generally speaking over 35ft sailboats are a very considered purchase and purchasers are generally well infomed about sailing characteristics and specifications and what they want from a boat, be it coastal or long distance. There is no real secret or special technique to identifying people, you just ask them, if they are not buying and the boat is availiable to view all are welcome. Salesmen who are sailors love to talk boats anyway.

As for clothes, I lived aboard for two and a half years, my preconceptions of what a yacht buyer will be wearing are long gone. Perhaps most of the comments on this thread are more to do with the upper end i.e 300, 000 plus?

Don't want to be a motorboat salesman, love sailing.