Mirror offshore rigging and general tips

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jpay

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Hello, bought a mirror offshore (the 7th one made bought from the london boat show all them years ago) as my upgrade and first step into sailing yachts.

Regarding the rigging i am confused as to why the port and starboard 'stays' come down so far back so that the boom cannot swing out 90degrees to the mast...
Also ANY tips and HINTS on the rigging for this boat would be greatly appreciated...

Jason
 
No back stays are there. Just forestay and shrouds so they must be set aft of the mast to hold it up and tension the forestay. Many boats have (cap) shrouds that are positioned aft of the mast (Fractional rigs for example and a number of small boats with masthead rigs but aft swept spreaders, mine included. Most/many sailing dinghies too.)

I have an old review of the Mirror PBO 238, Oct 1986 but the pictures and diagrams do not show the shroud attachment points.

Later models had a taller rig with more sail area, and more ballast. The interior was altered to a 4 berth layout The windows were combined to make one either side. It appears from the diagram that the mast was moved further forward too. An outboard became an option instead of the inboard diesel engine.

Other articles in PBO have included the original boat test, Oct '68.
Transatlantic crossing and modifications, Mar '74.
Gaff rig and other modifications, April 78
Bermudan cutter rig and other modifications, Nov 83
 
The Mirror offshore has been designed to be able to raise and drop the mast (I was able to do this in less than 2 minutes, single handed)There is no back stay so to allow easy drop and raise of the mast.

However, to make it more stable you need to position the stays behind the mast for better support to compensate luck of backstay. If the stays were in front of the mast, the mast would have been unstable.

The Mirror Offshore is a Good little Yacht; but you need a lot of sail area and a cruising chute to get it going in light airs.
 
The Mirror Offshore is basically what it says on the box; it is a good small sea boat, it is not a fast racer, the emphasis is on sea keeping ability & accomodation & most have a decent inboard for light airs & headwinds.

It is good at what it does, don't expect it to do much more. Lots of long distance solo passages completed successfully in them. Enjoy her for what she is.

For rigging advice, post pics of what is puzzling you & you are sure to get a prompt response to specific questions. The rig is pretty basic, but few boats are exactly the same - and many have been changed by previous owners.
 
Rig

As said the cap shrouds must be mounted to the deck well aft of the mast like a dinghy if there is no backstay. Without this aft set the mast would fall forward without a mainsail and mainsheet pulling and in any case would not have enough forestay tension.
The disadvantage as you have identified is that the mainsail can chafe on the side stays (cap shrouds)
You should try not to let it out too far and have a powerful vang or wide traveeller for the mainsheet to hold the boom down and so minimise the belly in the main when running.
The advantage of no backstay is that you can have a lot of roach on the leech of the mainsail. Roach is the outwar curve of the main sail aft edge going out beyond the straight line mat top to boom end. This will give more sail area and power for a limited height mast but means you must have battens to hold the edge out.
good luck with the new boat olewill
 
Take a look at this guy's videos http://www.youtube.com/user/KeepTurningLeft

His name is Dylan Winter & he is sailing round Britain in a Mirror offshore. Very entertaining - even if you don't have an interest in his boat.
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Quite a lengthy series of You Tube Videos .. made by a professional video-journalist ...well worth watching .

The first years worth (2008) begin with a brief intro http://www.youtube.com/user/dylanwinter1#g/c/5C21667D4EBD8C92

The second years worth (2009) starts with a short intro http://www.youtube.com/user/dylanwinter1#g/c/9780F4623DF88D3D
 
I have just acquired this Mirror Offshore called Pourquoi Pas (why not?) for my 14 year old daughter Lucy - she and her friend spent an entire weekend cleaning it inside and out and find it very easy to sail - nothing too extreme and pretty responsive. The engine a Volvo MD1 with Dynostart doesn't work at the moment so I have fitted it with an electric outboard, battery and solar panel to keep it charged on the mooring. This seems to work very well although it's not powerful enough to fight against a strong tide.





P9180005-1.jpg
 
Designed by the famous Van Der Stadt. It is claimed on one of the reviews that he used one as his personal boat, albeit with a cut down cabin.2ft draught, great for ditchcrawling,
very easy to handle,everything can be done from hatches, winner of competition by the Daily Mirror for a boat desugn to get the working family man sailing, so the closest thing to a sailing bathchair you will find.
 
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mirror offshore

I thought pretty carefully before choosing the boat for my slow circumnavigation of the UK

it sails very well - as long as there are not too many other boats around as almost everything sails faster than I do

but the shallow draft means that I do not need to use a dinghy -just run it ashore and jump over the side - and O can enjoy all those creeks and estuaries

The little inboard diesel means that the weight is in the right place - and she just chugs right along - the big fly wheel means that there are none of those horrible cavitation effects you get with small boats and outboards when dealing with waves

the only problem is that it is one of the ugliest boats ever designed

and as a camera man that really bugs me

Basically it sails a lot better than it looks - but as a former Eboat and sonata owner there are times when I start to dream........

I would also love a genoa that runs the full length of the forestay - but that has to be added to the long list of things I would like to do to the boat


Dylan
 
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Hello, just joined the forum as I have just bought a Mirror Offshore which has the outboard well conversion . It’s a nice job with hatches either side of the well to still give plenty of storage. However, the boat came with a rather tired 4hp engine and I was hoping someone could give me an idea of what size outboard I should get, bearing in mind I will be sailing in the Bristol Channel. As the outboard will weigh less than the original inboard, should I add some extra ballast? Lastly, does anyone know if it’s sensible to fit a hawse pipe and bow roller as I don’t relish the idea of lugging the anchor out of the fore peak and presumably through the fore hatch? Many thanks in advance for any help and suggestions.
 
Phil900ss said:
Hello, just joined the forum as I have just bought a Mirror Offshore which has the outboard well conversion . It’s a nice job with hatches either side of the well to still give plenty of storage. However, the boat came with a rather tired 4hp engine and I was hoping someone could give me an idea of what size outboard I should get, bearing in mind I will be sailing in the Bristol Channel. As the outboard will weigh less than the original inboard, should I add some extra ballast? Lastly, does anyone know if it’s sensible to fit a hawse pipe and bow roller as I don’t relish the idea of lugging the anchor out of the fore peak and presumably through the fore hatch? Many thanks in advance for any help and suggestions.
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FWIW the Volvo Penta MD1, which was the original inboard fitted, weighed approx 130kg (285 lb) c/w gearbox according to the Instruction book.

MK2 boats were fitted with a taller rig and an outboard in place of the MD1 . Ballast was increased to 720 lb
 
Phil900ss said:
Hello, just joined the forum as I have just bought a Mirror Offshore which has the outboard well conversion . It’s a nice job with hatches either side of the well to still give plenty of storage. However, the boat came with a rather tired 4hp engine and I was hoping someone could give me an idea of what size outboard I should get, bearing in mind I will be sailing in the Bristol Channel. As the outboard will weigh less than the original inboard, should I add some extra ballast? Lastly, does anyone know if it’s sensible to fit a hawse pipe and bow roller as I don’t relish the idea of lugging the anchor out of the fore peak and presumably through the fore hatch? Many thanks in advance for any help and suggestions.
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Where exactly in the Bristol Channel and with what intended cruising scope?
 
If you are you replace the 4 hp outboard, you could get a 6 hp Four stroke Tohatsu (or similar) not cheap but very reliable. No need to add ballast. Sailing in Bristol channel means that almost always you have to go with the tide, especially with a small heavy boat with relatively small rig/sail plan.
Regarding the anchor, it all depends how often you will be using it; you could locate the anchor at the bow pulpit or deck and the chain/rope through a chain pipe as you are suggesting, alternately, you could locate and deploy the anchor from the stern and store the chain/rope in one of the cockpit lockers. Many years ago, I had a Mirror Offshore. Welcome to the forum and good luck.
 
Many thanks, I will start adding some Ballast!
VicS said:
FWIW the Volvo Penta MD1, which was the original inboard fitted, weighed approx 130kg (285 lb) c/w gearbox according to the Instruction book.

MK2 boats were fitted with a taller rig and an outboard in place of the MD1 . Ballast was increased to 720 lb
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bitbaltic said:
Where exactly in the Bristol Channel and with what intended cruising scope?
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Out of Cardiff, but only day sailing, possibly the odd overnight slightly further afield. Thank y
CAPTAIN FANTASTIC said:
If you are you replace the 4 hp outboard, you could get a 6 hp Four stroke Tohatsu (or similar) not cheap but very reliable. No need to add ballast. Sailing in Bristol channel means that almost always you have to go with the tide, especially with a small heavy boat with relatively small rig/sail plan.
Regarding the anchor, it all depends how often you will be using it; you could locate the anchor at the bow pulpit or deck and the chain/rope through a chain pipe as you are suggesting, alternately, you could locate and deploy the anchor from the stern and store the chain/rope in one of the cockpit lockers. Many years ago, I had a Mirror Offshore. Welcome to the forum and good luck.
[/QUOTE
Many thanks , I appreciate your your help. I think I shall fit the anchor on deck with a pipe to drop the chain directly into the fore peak. Certainly I will see about a new engine as you suggest.
Brilliant forum this and I hadn’t expected so much help so quickly, thanks, Phil.
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Phil900ss said:
Many thanks, I will start adding some Ballast!
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the article (PBO 238) which I referred to in post #2 says the sail area for Mk 1 boats was 122 sq ft and the ballast 380 lb while for Mk 2 boats 152 - 197 sq ft and 700 lbs respectively

I assume that the increase in ballast was partly, at least, due to the increase in sail area
 
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