Milford Haven to Newport

CAPTAIN FANTASTIC

CAPTAIN FANTASTIC

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Over the next few days, I will sail from Milford Haven to Newport. The weather appears to be good. Ideally, i would like to do it in one go, or perhaps stop once or drop anchor for a few hours sleep. When is the time to leave Milford, state of tide, any tips?. Thank you in advance.
 
CAPTAIN FANTASTIC said:
Over the next few days, I will sail from Milford Haven to Newport. The weather appears to be good. Ideally, i would like to do it in one go, or perhaps stop once or drop anchor for a few hours sleep. When is the time to leave Milford, state of tide, any tips?. Thank you in advance.
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Make sure you check the gunnery range east of Milford before crossing it.
 
To get to Newport on Usk you will absolutely need a rising tide at least as far as Cardiff or you will be set back. So say a rising tide from Swansea depending on your speed. That determines your departure from say Oxwich or Mumbles Bay or were ever you pause. As tides are less in outer Bristol Channel you could push against them from Milford but you will be slow, and its a choice of keeping well off shore to have less tide or keeping closer in to have shorter passage.

My old boat is slow so if I wanted to do it in one I'd leave Milford an hour or so before HW to get round St Govans at slack then punch the tide to Swansea/Oxwich, but your boat, your speed etc and hopefully wind is westerly or its engine time again.

Myself I have always done it in 2 separate stages thus leaving Milford and hour or so before LW thus rising tide to Oxwich from St Govan, then stop over night then rising tide from Oxwich, but as I said my boat is slow and as my nom-de-sail indicates I am old and we temper keenness with need for sleep.

The range cannot stop you crossing it at need but can be fairly rude if you interrupt expensive army training.
 
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Chill and do it in 2 days. Overnight in Oxwich if the wind is nominally westerly (avoid anchoring over the wreck), try not to have to go into Swansea - takes too much time and the Tawe barrage may be closed. If the tide turns by the time you get to Cardiff, you’ll never get home. If you manage to punch the tide with the engine, your mooring will be dry when you arrive in Newport. Good luck and enjoy.
 
I’ve only done it the other way (and starting at Cardiff) but did it in one hit on neap tides through the night taking 14 hours. I’ve come up Channel from Swansea several times.

On the rhumb line the furthest offshore you will be is crossing Carmarthen Bay, and this is also where the tides are weakest along the Welsh coast. So (off the top of my head) I would look to carry the last of the flood past the tidal gate at Tenby/Caldey. This is probably 3 hours from Milford at 6kn; I would plan to leave the heads (St Anne’s point) at half tide on the flood. It is straightforward to motor from Milford Marina to St Anne’s against the flood even on springs, or you could start from Dale’s floating pontoon depending on what suits.

As said the ranges can be an issue; firing times are online and night firing is less often so going at night can be a good plan.

Reaching Caldey at high water It will take most of the ebb to cross Carmarthen Bay at 6kn but if you arrive early and are headed at Gower then it’s simply a case of keeping going until the tide turns. Do not go inside the Mixon shoals at Gower near LW, the passage is narrow and latest NTM place a new (old) wreck in the channel. Carrying the flood at 6kn boat speed it is 5-6 hours from Swansea Bay to Cardiff. In fair weather, pass inside the Hugo Bank, fairy/Tusker rocks and take the Nash Passage. This gives a strong inshore tide lift. Going east through Nash you run down a narrowing channel between the coast and the sandbanks so be sure the weather is fair because you cannot turn around although the rising tide limits the dangers.

Navigate as close to the Aberthaw Caisson as you dare- it is deep water and you will get a strong lift here on the flood taking you past Barry. (There is an inshore eddy at Barry on the ebb but not on the flood). You should arrive at Lavernock Point before HW and before the tide turns. This is a tidal gate and you may struggle if you arrive late; you can pick up a buoy or anchor in the fairway at Barry in that case.

At that point you will have been at sea for 14-15 hours and Cardiff is at hand with plenty of water to get in. It is likely to be slow going to Newport from there, not impossible but I would suggest pulling into Cardiff (many options) and waiting out the ebb and first half of the flood. Leave Cardiff 9 hours later at half tide and carry the flood to Newport arriving at high water about 2 hours later.

Basically, if you can do 6kn STW then there is no need to stop in Swansea Bay either at Mumbles or Oxwich. Swansea marina is an hour off the rhumb line so don’t plan to split it, get to Cardiff and complete the journey on the next flood.

Milford to Cardiff is about 90Nm on the rhumb.

Hope this helps.
 
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Snoopy463 said:
Chill and do it in 2 days. Overnight in Oxwich if the wind is nominally westerly (avoid anchoring over the wreck), try not to have to go into Swansea - takes too much time and the Tawe barrage may be closed. If the tide turns by the time you get to Cardiff, you’ll never get home. If you manage to punch the tide with the engine, your mooring will be dry when you arrive in Newport. Good luck and enjoy.
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If I manage to get to Porthcawl in one go, can I drop anchor outside Porthcawl , or into the harbour? I have a bilge keel boat. I am looking at the chart, where is the wreck? thanks
 
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CAPTAIN FANTASTIC said:
If I manage to get to Porthcawl in one go, can I drop anchor outside Porthcawl , or into the harbour? I have a bilge keel boat, thanks
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There is not any shelter at Porthcawl and you cannot enter or exit below about half tide. If you punch the ebb across Carmarthen Bay you should arrive at Porthcawl on the flood and you can get in, but the problem is leaving at half water. If you leave at half water on a rising tide you will not make the tidal gate at Lavernock before the tide turns. One of the problems of Porthcawl is that the only port that is within half a tide of it is Swansea, so visiting Porthcawl basically means starting and ending in Swansea.

Btw Porthcawl has been a locked marina for several years now- wrt you calling it a harbour- if your charts still say it is a harbour you seriously should invest in new ones ;)
 
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bitbaltic said:
There is not any shelter at Porthcawl and you cannot enter or exit below about half tide. If you punch the ebb across Carmarthen Bay you should arrive at Porthcawl on the flood and you can get in, but the problem is leaving at half water. If you leave at half water on a rising tide you will not make the tidal gate at Lavernock before the tide turns. One of the problems of Porthcawl is that the only port that is within half a tide of it is Swansea, so visiting Porthcawl basically means starting and ending in Swansea.

Btw Porthcawl has been a locked marina for several years now- wrt you calling it a harbour- if your charts still say it is a harbour you seriously should invest in new ones ;)
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Haha, it says "Porthcawl Marina".
 
Snoopy463 said:
Chill and do it in 2 days. Overnight in Oxwich if the wind is nominally westerly (avoid anchoring over the wreck), try not to have to go into Swansea - takes too much time and the Tawe barrage may be closed. If the tide turns by the time you get to Cardiff, you’ll never get home. If you manage to punch the tide with the engine, your mooring will be dry when you arrive in Newport. Good luck and enjoy.
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Thanks, it appears that doing it over 2 days is best
 
bitbaltic said:
I’ve only done it the other way (and starting at Cardiff) but did it in one hit on neap tides through the night taking 14 hours. I’ve come up Channel from Swansea several times.

On the rhumb line the furthest offshore you will be is crossing Carmarthen Bay, and this is also where the tides are weakest along the Welsh coast. So (off the top of my head) I would look to carry the last of the flood past the tidal gate at Tenby/Caldey. This is probably 3 hours from Milford at 6kn; I would plan to leave the heads (St Anne’s point) at half tide on the flood. It is straightforward to motor from Milford Marina to St Anne’s against the flood even on springs, or you could start from Dale’s floating pontoon depending on what suits.

As said the ranges can be an issue; firing times are online and night firing is less often so going at night can be a good plan.

Reaching Caldey at high water It will take most of the ebb to cross Carmarthen Bay at 6kn but if you arrive early and are headed at Gower then it’s simply a case of keeping going until the tide turns. Do not go inside the Mixon shoals at Gower near LW, the passage is narrow and latest NTM place a new (old) wreck in the channel. Carrying the flood at 6kn boat speed it is 5-6 hours from Swansea Bay to Cardiff. In fair weather, pass inside the Hugo Bank, fairy/Tusker rocks and take the Nash Passage. This gives a strong inshore tide lift. Going east through Nash you run down a narrowing channel between the coast and the sandbanks so be sure the weather is fair because you cannot turn around although the rising tide limits the dangers.

Navigate as close to the Aberthaw Caisson as you dare- it is deep water and you will get a strong lift here on the flood taking you past Barry. (There is an inshore eddy at Barry on the ebb but not on the flood). You should arrive at Lavernock Point before HW and before the tide turns. This is a tidal gate and you may struggle if you arrive late; you can pick up a buoy or anchor in the fairway at Barry in that case.

At that point you will have been at sea for 14-15 hours and Cardiff is at hand with plenty of water to get in. It is likely to be slow going to Newport from there, not impossible but I would suggest pulling into Cardiff (many options) and waiting out the ebb and first half of the flood. Leave Cardiff 9 hours later at half tide and carry the flood to Newport arriving at high water about 2 hours later.

Basically, if you can do 6kn STW then there is no need to stop in Swansea Bay either at Mumbles or Oxwich. Swansea marina is an hour off the rhumb line so don’t plan to split it, get to Cardiff and complete the journey on the next flood.

Milford to Cardiff is about 90Nm on the rhumb.

Hope this helps.
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Thank you, it helps a lot
 
Last time I did the trip it was on a saturday so no problem with the ranges, i would leave milford early morning and overnight at oxwich bay, leave three hours before low water punch time across swansea bay, take the nash passage will get you to newport around high water.
 
As others said, do check in with the firing ranges. In particular Pendine. We went through without calling in. Our Navionics said they only operated with clear sight and that marine traffic had right of way. The chap in the rib that intercepted us though and escorted out said the chart was wrong, and that we should have gone completely outside of it.

I realise I should have called in, best to be safe. But to tell us that we should go around really bothered me... We're a 21 foot mobo. I don't wanna be 10 miles offshore!

In the end he said we should be ok in future calling in and sticking South of DZ2 and DZ6 markers, which is 5 miles offshore.
 
vodzurk said:
As others said, do check in with the firing ranges. In particular Pendine. We went through without calling in. Our Navionics said they only operated with clear sight and that marine traffic had right of way. The chap in the rib that intercepted us though and escorted out said the chart was wrong, and that we should have gone completely outside of it.

I realise I should have called in, best to be safe. But to tell us that we should go around really bothered me... We're a 21 foot mobo. I don't wanna be 10 miles offshore!

In the end he said we should be ok in future calling in and sticking South of DZ2 and DZ6 markers, which is 5 miles offshore.
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Was once advised by the rya barrister, that you can still go across, advising any guard boat, that you are "exercising your right to innocent passage".
 
vodzurk said:
As others said, do check in with the firing ranges. In particular Pendine. We went through without calling in. Our Navionics said they only operated with clear sight and that marine traffic had right of way. The chap in the rib that intercepted us though and escorted out said the chart was wrong, and that we should have gone completely outside of it.

I realise I should have called in, best to be safe. But to tell us that we should go around really bothered me... We're a 21 foot mobo. I don't wanna be 10 miles offshore! In the end he said we should be ok in future calling in and sticking South of DZ2 and DZ6 markers, which is 5 miles offshore.
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The Warden slightly lied to you. (How unusual for the MOD). Legally para 3 of section 9 of the Castlemartin Range bylaws says you can go through the firing area at anytime but not fish there. I think I wouldn't want to go through when they are firing, and they wont be pleased to stop, so calling in and South of DZ2 and DZ6 is good but they cannot expect you to put yourself in sea danger so must accommodate as required. You are doing well in such making passages - keep it up
 
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