MF/HF Radio transceivers

[laika]

What do europeans buy these days? When I first looked at this the ICOM 801E was available, but they don't seem to sell that any more, just the 802 which despite being on the icomuk web site (albeit with the disclaimer that it's not appropriate for EU flagged vessels) still has no european type approval.

I'm aware that a lot of people will overlook the rules and that it's unlikely your equipment will be seized but if I wanted to install something which I could legitimately plug my UK MMSI into what would be the candidates? Or are there actually no legitimate options?

 

[KellysEye]

We had an Icom M700 which was on our ship's radio licence along with VHF and Inmarsat C. No mention was made by OFCOM that our M700 was not approved for Europe when we applied for the licence. So if you want one that isn't approved go ahead, nobody is interested.

 

[laika]

Point taken that not even the authorities really care about type approval, although a thread from a few years back mentioned that non-compliant could and (very very rarely) had been confiscated fem yachts.

Is there no type approved kit at a similar or lower price point than the 802? What do the organisers of the various rallies recommend?

Would I be right in thinking that a second hand 801E which I gather doesn't meet current standards but was legal at the time it was originally sold would be "legal"?

 

[Oscarpop]

We went through the same process. Call icom, they are really helpful. We ended up with an 802. Icom put the mmsi in for us .

 

[Monique]

Hi Laika,

I got an 801E from Bob Smith at Yachtcom on the south coast.

IMO, the 801E is a far better product than the 802. For instance the 802 is not a sealed unit and uses fans to draw in cooling air (salty) whereas the 801E uses a large heat sink to dissipate heat.

I know there were few 801E available when I got mine. Give him a call. GL

 

[ffiill]

The vertex vx 1700 which you can source from Hongkong or the US for about £500.including an atu.
The powers that be dont like it because it has totally open programming.
That is it can be self programmed to operate on any hf frequency including military aviation marine and ham.
The US is I believe the only country in the first world where you can buy and use it.
Otherwise its usually listed as for export only.
It is however highly rated and you can find reviews on youtube and google

 

[KellysEye]

The vertex vx 1700...on any hf frequency including military aviation marine and ham.

If you are going long distance sailing you need both MF and HF frequencies, the most used frequencies are MF.

 

[laika]

I did get in touch with ICOM. They obviously maintain that the 802 shouldn't be installed on an EU flagged vessel but note that they are unaware of anyone having been prosecuted for installing one for purely leisure use (i.e. where MF/HF is not *required*). They'll reset the MMSI of a second hand 801E for £46.80 inc VAT. There are plans for a type-approved successor to the 801E but they couldn't give me even a vague idea of timescales.

 

[Seven Spades]

Is HF the same as "Short wave" radio that I used to be able to pick up on my old Grundig and is that the same as Ham radio? If so what is MF? What is the problem with Long range radios, can't you just get a licence for them and who is listening?

 

[oldvarnish]

Is HF the same as "Short wave" radio that I used to be able to pick up on my old Grundig and is that the same as Ham radio? If so what is MF? What is the problem with Long range radios, can't you just get a licence for them and who is listening?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_spectrum

There is no 'problem' with long range radios, it's the people who operate them. That's why you "just can't get a licence" without proper training.

 

[ffiill]

So here is a question for the experts and something which causes me a great deal of confusion.
I could buy a marine mf hf radio like the Icom which is restricted to marine frequencies.
I could register it on my offcom licence and so long as I had a long range certificate myself I could quite legally use it calling on my vessels allocated call sign.
If I then modded that radio to also operate on ham frequencies or used a radio like the vx 1700 and I called up a marine ham net using my ships call sign would I be in breach of my licence?
Similarly if I had a ham licence and called on a marine frequency?
For marine purposes its the vessel thats allocated the call sign wheras for ham radio it is the operator who is given the authorised call sign.
It appears that offcom didnt forsee this cross over or have I got it wrong

 

[GHA]

So here is a question for the experts and something which causes me a great deal of confusion.
I could buy a marine mf hf radio like the Icom which is restricted to marine frequencies.
I could register it on my offcom licence and so long as I had a long range certificate myself I could quite legally use it calling on my vessels allocated call sign.
If I then modded that radio to also operate on ham frequencies or used a radio like the vx 1700 and I called up a marine ham net using my ships call sign would I be in breach of my licence?
Similarly if I had a ham licence and called on a marine frequency?
For marine purposes its the vessel thats allocated the call sign wheras for ham radio it is the operator who is given the authorised call sign.
It appears that offcom didnt forsee this cross over or have I got it wrong

If you modded a marine SSB radio to transmit on Ham frequencies then technically it is no longer type approved and shouldn't be used to transmit on marine SSB bands any more. Same with a ham radio, it's not type approved to transmit marine SSB bands. The license doesn't really come into it, it's the radio. Hams can use what they want on their frequencies as they are supposed to know what they are doing and keep things clean,

 

[prv]

If I then modded that radio to also operate on ham frequencies or used a radio like the vx 1700 and I called up a marine ham net using my ships call sign would I be in breach of my licence?

Yes, because your marine license only allows you to use certain frequencies, which don't include ham ones, and requires you to use a type-approved radio which your mods would have invalidated.

In addition, if you don't have a ham license and call sign, the hams won't talk to you unless it's an emergency.

Similarly if I had a ham licence and called on a marine frequency?

You can use whatever radio you like with a ham license, so that's not an issue, but if you only have a ham license then you're not allowed to transmit on the marine frequencies.

If you have both licenses and use a modded marine radio then you're basically ok - just the type approval technically infringed a little by the mod, which absolutely nobody is going to care about.

Pete

 

[Mrnotming]

Q: is it complex to get a licence for MF marine?
Q: is morse requirement gone?
Q: is there lingo to be learnt like the Q code CQ CQ etc?

 

[KellysEye]

Our Icom 700 had both Marine and Ham frequencies, marine is Upper Side Band, ham is Lower Side Band. If the Icom you buy hasn't got that it can be adjusted for ham. Hams won't talk to you unless you have a ham licence and thus a ham call sign but they do marine forecasts which you can listen to. If you want to talk on both USB an LSB you would need a licence for both.

 

[prv]

Bearing in mind I don't have either kind of license, so I could be wrong...

Q: is it complex to get a licence for MF marine?

Not hugely. Think like your VHF course but over an extra couple of days as it's slightly more technical than just selecting ch16 and picking up the mic.

The hams on the other hand consider operation afloat to be an advanced subject, so you need to get their highest-level license which includes a fair bit of electronics theory and suchlike, the sort of thing you work towards in your spare time for many months.

Q: is morse requirement gone?

Long-gone for marine license as far as I know. I think there's still a little bit in ham, but it's very noddy - you're allowed to write down the (slow) dots and dashes and translate them at your leisure, likewise pre-prepare a message into dots and dashes before starting to send.

Q: is there lingo to be learnt like the Q code CQ CQ etc?

Not in Marine, still included in ham.

Pete

 

[GHA]

Our Icom 700 had both Marine and Ham frequencies, marine is Upper Side Band, ham is Lower Side Band. If the Icom you buy hasn't got that it can be adjusted for ham. Hams won't talk to you unless you have a ham licence and thus a ham call sign but they do marine forecasts which you can listen to. If you want to talk on both USB an LSB you would need a licence for both.

More web misinformation.

Licenses cover frequency bands you can transmit on, not what side band you transmit on. Ham generally uses USB above 10Mhz & LSB below, for historical technical reasons apparently, but nothing to stop using either on any allowed frequency.

 

[Seven Spades]

I still don't quite get this. Reading it through there are marine frequencies and ham frequencies. So are marine frequencies found in both MF and HF. So why would a yachtsman need to be able to access the Ham frequencies? Surly all ship to ship and emergency contact would take place on marine frequencies?

 

[Mrnotming]

Bearing in mind I don't have either kind of license, so I could be wrong...

Thanks Pete,
Sort of useful thing SSB if going across ponds, would definitely fit up with a good ICOM.
The reality is I've let the years slip by, and the Med seems dangerous enough!
I do have an SSB ATAS909 receiver, with which I have tweaked my way to Bracknell synoptic charts via a program LM 32 I think it was that used the sound card of a Lappy to collect the buzz of digits.Not used much now,3G seems to do the business for France coasting.It may still be a good option say Azores to home waters, but I think the satphone has probably taken over now.



Not hugely. Think like your VHF course but over an extra couple of days as it's slightly more technical than just selecting ch16 and picking up the mic.

The hams on the other hand consider operation afloat to be an advanced subject, so you need to get their highest-level license which includes a fair bit of electronics theory and suchlike, the sort of thing you work towards in your spare time for many months.



Long-gone for marine license as far as I know. I think there's still a little bit in ham, but it's very noddy - you're allowed to write down the (slow) dots and dashes and translate them at your leisure, likewise pre-prepare a message into dots and dashes before starting to send.



Not in Marine, still included in ham.

Pete

Sort of useful thing SSB if going across ponds, would definitely fit up with a good ICOM.
The reality is I've let the years slip by, and the Med seems dangerous enough!
I do have an SSB ATAS909 receiver, with which I have tweaked my way to Bracknell synoptic charts via a program LM 32 I think it was that used the sound card of a Lappy to collect the buzz of digits.Not used much now,3G seems to do the business for France coasting.It may still be a good option say Azores to home waters, but I think the satphone has probably taken over now.



Not hugely. Think like your VHF course but over an extra couple of days as it's slightly more technical than just selecting ch16 and picking up the mic.

The hams on the other hand consider operation afloat to be an advanced subject, so you need to get their highest-level license which includes a fair bit of electronics theory and suchlike, the sort of thing you work towards in your spare time for many months.
Pete this has got a bit garbled, due to watching too much tv (VE day and currently Ospreys v Glasgow 21-10 presently!
Please forgive the mess I've made of your nicely answered query on my part!Blame the Asda Pinotage!

 

[prv]

I still don't quite get this. Reading it through there are marine frequencies and ham frequencies. So are marine frequencies found in both MF and HF.

Yes - there are marine allocations in MF, HF, and (as we're all familiar with), VHF. There are also ham allocations in practically all bands, because they are suited to different types of radio and hams may want to play with all of them.

So why would a yachtsman need to be able to access the Ham frequencies? Surly all ship to ship and emergency contact would take place on marine frequencies?

Formal maritime traffic, yes. So if you're going to talk to a container ship or a pelagic trawler, it will be on the marine bands. Likewise the Coastguard, if you can find anyone still listening (I *think* Falmouth still have an HF distress watch, but in general it's in decline as satellite has taken over). However, presumably for historical reasons, most of the yachtsmen's social and support nets are on the ham bands. In addition, hams absolutely love any excuse to pretend that their hobby has a practical use, so while various countries' Coastguards are doing their best to close down MF and HF services, the hams are busily running nets where they love to hear from actual sailors at sea and are eager to help with weather forecasts, passing on messages, maintaining comms in difficult conditions, and generally being helpful. Beats exchanging banalities with yet another old man in his shed . So there's a certain symbiotic relationship between hams and remote-area cruisers, which is why ham frequencies are useful on board.

Pete