Mediterranean - Certification requirements

[roa312]

I’ve been researching the certifications needed for a bareboat charter (motorboat) in the Mediterranean and would appreciate some guidance. I understand that many Mediterranean countries accept the ICC, IYT International Bareboat Skipper, RYA Coastal Skipper, or local certifications. However, I am located in DK and since Denmark isn’t part of international certification schemes like ICC and RYA, I’m unsure if I need to complete online courses or travel to earn these certifications, or if my Danish certifications would somehow make me eligible. One thing is agreeing certifications with the charter company, but I just want to make sure I am properly certified under local authorities as well.

Additionally, I have a related question about the certifications needed for permanently berthing a >15m motorboat in countries such as Italy, Croatia, or Greece. I believe the country of registration matters, and as an EU citizen, I assume it would be easiest to register in Denmark or locally (speculating here). I learned through a Danish blue water cruisers forum, that the DK Yachtskipper 3 certification is generally accepted by local authorities for Danish-registered boats in the Med, even though this doesn’t technically qualify for international sailing under Danish rules. However, I’m guessing in this case it would probably be safest to have the international certifications as well?

I’ve also included an overview of Danish certifications below, which may be irrelevant but I’m sharing just in case.

DK Certificate of Competence Allows operation of vessels up to 15m in Scandinavia *No prior experience required

DK Yachtskipper 3 Allows operation of vessels up to 24m in Scandinavia *Requires Certificate of Competence *Requires Engine Certificate of Competence for motorboats *Requires GP health certificate

DK Yachtskipper 1 Allows operation of vessels up to 24m internationally *Requires 6 months of documented sailing under Yachtskipper 3

 

[Skipper Felice]

Hello
I think you have more than enough "certificates" or what ever this is called to charter a yacht. I am sailing around the Med. with my "Swiss Certificate of Competence for Ocean Yachting" - all my Swiss (no EU) collegues have this. It's by Swiss law the offical permit to sail yachts worldwide without limits up to 300 to.
There is a complete mess with all the certs. that are available around EU and UK. All have some / many courses to make money - but at the end of the day, it's more or less the same.
You have to be responsible for the boat - and this needs some training and experience.
Most charter companies just will check, that you have some paper with an offical country flag on it ...
The authorities rarely check it and they accept all papers giving you the power be a competenst skipper.

 

[Tranona]

For bareboat it really depends on either the charterer or in some cases the individual state what is acceptable. Some states have a defined list of acceptable qualifications for chartering boats under their flag, others don't.

For your own boat you only require what is necessary for your flag, although as with chartering an ICC is useful. The ICC is very basic and well below the level of your DK3 for example. Pretty sure you would have no difficulty with DK3 for charter. For private under the DK flag no states require you to have specific qualifications as a visitor, but may well ask to see something, particularly if you are involved in any sort of incident. If you enter the main inland waterways system you will need to have a CEVNI endorsement which is available as an extra to the ICC - simple test of the rules of the road.

 

[piratos]

The certificates are different to compare - your Y3 for instance allows you professional work (passenger boats upto 24m - the ICC is not for professionell use

 

[roa312]

Most charter companies just will check, that you have some paper with an offical country flag on it ...
The authorities rarely check it and they accept all papers giving you the power be a competenst skipper.

@Skipper Felice: Thank you for confirming this, which is also the message I got from other Danish boaters in the Med - that essentially the DK Y3 certification is generally accepted as sufficient documentation by both the charter companies and local authorities.

For private under the DK flag no states require you to have specific qualifications as a visitor, but may well ask to see something, particularly if you are involved in any sort of incident

@Tranona: The incident part would be my main worry. Only the DK Y1 certifications allows for sailing >15m boats internationally under the Danish rules. Furthermore the DK Y1 is a difficult certification to get. So I'm not sure if I just need to get on with it and get that certification in case I were to register a boat under DK flag, or if it is simply easier to register locally and obtain local/internationally recognized certifications. Do you know if there's a standard approach to this among EU owners in the Med?

 

[Tranona]

@Skipper Felice: Thank you for confirming this, which is also the message I got from other Danish boaters in the Med - that essentially the DK Y3 certification is generally accepted as sufficient documentation by both the charter companies and local authorities.


@Tranona: The incident part would be my main worry. Only the DK Y1 certifications allows for sailing >15m boats internationally under the Danish rules. Furthermore the DK Y1 is a difficult certification to get. So I'm not sure if I just need to get on with it and get that certification in case I were to register a boat under DK flag, or if it is simply easier to register locally and obtain local/internationally recognized certifications. Do you know if there's a standard approach to this among EU owners in the Med?

"Local" registration and certification is even more of a nightmare so best avoided. Flagging/crewing/certification/equipment etc is generally nothing to do with the EU but resides with the flag state. There is a well established principle of "comity" which says that each foreign flag state recognises the rights of other flag states to establish their own rules and accepts them for visitors. This generally means, as already suggested that possession of the appropriate flag certification is sufficient to satisfy local authorities. Local flag states do however reserve the right to apply local rules to boats in their territorial waters but very few do, and then in a way that really does not inconvenience most people. A good example is Portugal that has many foreign flagged boats in effect "resident" there and requires them to meet local equipment rules. The rules though are not onerous for a well equipped boat.

 

[roa312]

"Local" registration and certification is even more of a nightmare so best avoided. Flagging/crewing/certification/equipment etc is generally nothing to do with the EU but resides with the flag state. There is a well established principle of "comity" which says that each foreign flag state recognises the rights of other flag states to establish their own rules and accepts them for visitors. This generally means, as already suggested that possession of the appropriate flag certification is sufficient to satisfy local authorities. Local flag states do however reserve the right to apply local rules to boats in their territorial waters but very few do, and then in a way that really does not inconvenience most people. A good example is Portugal that has many foreign flagged boats in effect "resident" there and requires them to meet local equipment rules. The rules though are not onerous for a well equipped boat.

I didn’t realise that registering the boat locally could be challenging, so thank you for pointing that out! Based on your advice, it seems like the DK Y1 is the best option for me (potentially in combination with the ICC), although I could probably get away with the DK Y3 for local authority checks. However, it just seems safer to be in full compliance with regulations in case of a potential incident, as you highlighted.

 

[DAW]

"Local" registration and certification is even more of a nightmare so best avoided. Flagging/crewing/certification/equipment etc is generally nothing to do with the EU but resides with the flag state. There is a well established principle of "comity" which says that each foreign flag state recognises the rights of other flag states to establish their own rules and accepts them for visitors. This generally means, as already suggested that possession of the appropriate flag certification is sufficient to satisfy local authorities. Local flag states do however reserve the right to apply local rules to boats in their territorial waters but very few do, and then in a way that really does not inconvenience most people. A good example is Portugal that has many foreign flagged boats in effect "resident" there and requires them to meet local equipment rules. The rules though are not onerous for a well equipped boat.

There is a difference between a foreign flagged vessel on innocent passage through territorial waters and one either permanently or habitually moored there or on an extended visit. For example, for UK flagged boats normally kept and used in French waters the local authorities expect you to comply with the requirements of both your flag state and also the French regulations. Compliance with the rules on safety equipment, etc. is unlikely to be an issue for a well-equipped boat and any transgressions are usually very minor and ignored. However, the position on license requirements for skipper and crew is more complex. My understanding is that to operate a pleasure boat kept permanently in EU waters, you need either a licence issued by an EU state, or an equivalent issued by a non-EU state but recognised by the country you are visiting such as the ICC issued by RYA or similar.

In +10 years in the Med with UK flagged boats I've been subject to document checks in several different countries. They usually ask for some combination of registration certificate (proof of flag state/owner), evidence of where the boat is normally kept (innocent passage v "resident"), a VAT invoice (proof of EU tax paid status) and the licence of the skipper. Only once have they ever checked safety equipment.

 

[Tranona]

There is a difference between a foreign flagged vessel on innocent passage through territorial waters and one either permanently or habitually moored there or on an extended visit. For example, for UK flagged boats normally kept and used in French waters the local authorities expect you to comply with the requirements of both your flag state and also the French regulations. Compliance with the rules on safety equipment, etc. is unlikely to be an issue for a well-equipped boat and any transgressions are usually very minor and ignored. However, the position on license requirements for skipper and crew is more complex. My understanding is that to operate a pleasure boat kept permanently in EU waters, you need either a licence issued by an EU state, or an equivalent issued by a non-EU state but recognised by the country you are visiting such as the ICC issued by RYA or similar.

In +10 years in the Med with UK flagged boats I've been subject to document checks in several different countries. They usually ask for some combination of registration certificate (proof of flag state/owner), evidence of where the boat is normally kept (innocent passage v "resident"), a VAT invoice (proof of EU tax paid status) and the licence of the skipper. Only once have they ever checked safety equipment.

Do you have any links to anything official to support this? AFAIK there is no EU law that deals with certification, registration, safety equipment or crewing of private leisure craft. This is all the responsibility of flag states. You are correct to make the distinction between innocent passage and prolonged periods in territorial waters, but in reality few states make the distinction for private boats. There are literally thousands of boats kept in states other than their flag state without needing to comply with local state law. Membership of the EU is irrelevant in this situation. For example Portugal is one of the states that does have a regulation that applies to foreign flagged vessels kept in its waters, but it applies equally to EU and non EU flagged boats.

The only EU law that controls movement of private boats is VAT where there is a clear distinction between EU VAT status and non EU

 

[DAW]

Do you have any links to anything official to support this? AFAIK there is no EU law that deals with certification, registration, safety equipment or crewing of private leisure craft. This is all the responsibility of flag states. You are correct to make the distinction between innocent passage and prolonged periods in territorial waters, but in reality few states make the distinction for private boats. There are literally thousands of boats kept in states other than their flag state without needing to comply with local state law. Membership of the EU is irrelevant in this situation. For example Portugal is one of the states that does have a regulation that applies to foreign flagged vessels kept in its waters, but it applies equally to EU and non EU flagged boats.

The only EU law that controls movement of private boats is VAT where there is a clear distinction between EU VAT status and non EU

My statements above and below are based on the legal advice I was given when I first arrived in Monaco and then moved my boat to France over 10 years ago. I agree with you that EU law is only relevant in so far as it applies to the EU VAT status of the vessel and the mutual recognition of permits and licences issued by member states. I think you need to make a distinction between what people choose to do and what they should do ... I know there are thousands of boats in states other than their flag states with owners who are blissfully ignorant of their obligations to comply with local laws, but this doesn't make it right.

The legislation which determines safety and license requirements is set out in a combination of UNCLOS and Coastal State regulations. Some of this legislation is coherent and some is not ... overall the situation is something of a mess.

The first thing to consider is what combination of UNCLOS and Coastal State regulations apply. For the majority of pleasure boaters the concept of "innocent passage" set out in UNCLOS does not apply and there will be a requirement to comply with Coastal State regulations. Under the principle of "comity", most Coastal States choose not to interfere with the operation of foreign flagged vessels. However, this does not prevent them from doing so if they choose to, and it does not remove the underlying obligation for foreign-flagged vessels and their skippers to comply with the Coastal State regulations when in Coastal Waters and not on "innocent passage".

The next thing is to determine whether the Coastal State regulations require evidence of competence for foreign flagged vessels or not. Within my cruising area, my understanding is that Spain and Italy do require evidence of competence regardless of the flag state of the vessel, whereas in France the position is less clear ... There is legislation which states that evidence of competence is only required for foreign flagged vessels in French waters when the vessel is owned or used by persons resident in France ... otherwise the rules of the flag state apply. However, there is other legislation which contradicts this. In France, ratified international treaties usually take precedence over national legislation, so arguably UNCLOS trumps national legislation, which would imply you have to comply with Coastal State regulations, but the law seems to say you don't, so who knows

Once you determine whether evidence of competence is required or not, the next challenge is to determine what qualifies as evidence of competence. Once again the position is not clear. Resolutions 14 and Resolution 40 of the UN ECE IWC established the concept of the ICC and guarantee its recognition by states adopting the resolutions. However, adoption is not uniform. France and Italy adopted Resolution 14, but not the more recent Resolution 40 ... both recognise the ICC. Greece, Spain and Portugal have not adopted either Resolution 14 or 40. However, Spain has formally recognised the validity of RYA qualifications and the ICC as evidence of competence in its national legislation, and in Greece and Portugal the ICC is generally accepted although there doesn't appear to be any legal basis for this.

 

[Tranona]

As you say it is a mess. Do you have any evidence that Spain and Italy actually enforce a requirement for evidence of competence? Any evidence of prosecutions for non compliance? In the 30 odd years that I have been either boating in the Med or following such matters in the press or on forums I have never heard of any enforcement of such rules in relation to private boats.

While states have the right to apply their state rules to visitors the reality is that even when they have legislation in place there is little evidence of enforcement, effectively abiding by comity. What is "right" and what is "wrong"? By your own admission it is unclear in law what ones "obligations" are so it is no surprise that most people "choose" to be ignorant.

 

[DAW]

I know of two people who were subjected to fairly extensive document checks in Spain and Italy last year (one in Ibiza and one in Sardinia). Licences, permits, etc. were requested on both occasions.

I’ve also not seen much comment in the press or on forums and suspect you’re right that enforcement is limited or non-existent in most areas.

The obligations are in most cases relatively clear (except perhaps in France), although how to achieve compliance can be more problematic for some. As with many things in life, choosing to be ignorant often only becomes a problem when something goes wrong.

 

[Portofino]

Comity



Its currently over looked at the mo in the EU , but your ( what ever flagged boat ) stays effectively permanently, more than 6 months then by the book they can now insist you follow local rules , so no change per se after 1/1/20 for 3 rd parties ( none EU ) just a question if a cattle prod from Brussels comes down forcing the Sp FR or what ever to apply it .

You can see why waaaaay back in 2005 I did the French permit d Mer .Already had the RYA tickets btw , this was as well as ,not instead of - because at the time the boat is / was not transient in the Cote d Azur .
The rag on the stern stuck to a pole is irrelevant.




This “ British flag = British rules “ debate regularly crops up. I think you need to read Uncloss 11 and other international agreements. The coastal State can impose whatever conditions it wants on vessels NOT on innocent passage. Portugal for instance requires pleasure craft there for more that 6 months to carry the same safety equipment as Portuguese registered ones although unlike a few years ago Portugal where foreign flagged boats that are deemed resident are required to comply with local rules on equipment. New Zealand also applies local rules to foreign boats that are resident, although like Portugal it exempts genuine visitors or boats on "innocent passage".

Innocent passage is an important concept in international law as that is when coastal states apply the principle of "comity" and respect the state flags rules. However once a boat starts cruising within the waters of the coastal state, and that time exceeds 6 months then “innocent passage “no longer applies and with it comity, although in practice most states do extend comity, at least for private leisure craft. That’s the current position within the Med.

 

[DAW]

Just to clarify some of the comments above on the definition of "innocent passage" and the application of "comity" and your ability to rely on it ...

"Innocent passage" under UNCLOS applies only to a continuous passage into, through and out of Coastal State waters. The circumstances under which you can stop without interrupting the "innocent passage" are very limited. In particular, a pleasure vessel cruising through an area, exploring the coastline, stopping for lunch or to swim, anchoring overnight or visiting marinas is not on innocent passage. If you enter a port or marina you are in Internal Waters not Coastal Waters and you become fully subject to the laws of the Coastal State until you leave its territorial waters. If you are heading towards or departing from a port or marina, you are subject to the laws of the Coastal State while you are within its territorial waters. In practice, it would be very difficult for a pleasure vessel to argue that it is on "innocent passage" as the term is used by UNCLOS, and therefore not subject to the rules of the Coastal State.

"Comity" is an informal and non-mandatory courtesy shown by one country towards another. It is not a legal right or a hard and fast rule and it can be ignored at any time. Some people in this forum quote time limits which they believe are attached to the application or validity of comity ... e.g. the six months mentioned above ... but this is not the case. People often confuse "comity" with the simple lack of enforcement referred to by Tranona ... The fact that a Coastal State fails to enforce its own laws, does not necessarily mean it is accepting the validity and application of the laws of another state.

The acid test is always what happens when something goes wrong ... there is a collision, property is damaged, someone is injured, etc. ... and the authorities become involved. In the limited number of cases where details have been fully reported, they seem to disregard comity and revert to enforcement of national regulations (at least in France).

It's also worth noting that many insurance policies include as a condition language to the effect that it is your responsibility to ensure that the vessel is operated in accordance with applicable laws and regulations at all times. Ignorance ... intentional or otherwise ... is not a defence.

 

[julians]

I've been 'boarded' a handful of times over the decades in majorca, and asked to show proof of insurance, and my qualifications. Plus they also checked for the correct number of life jacket, flares etc.

Ive always been able to satisfy the request, as I have an icc and obviously the boat is insured, incidentally the marina where it is kept require it to be insured as a condition of keeping it there.

I'm not sure what would have happened if I hadn't been able to produce my icc, I don't think I'd fancy arguing that as its a British flagged boat sailed by a brit then I didn't need any qualification.

 

[Portofino]

Been boarded a few times too in 24 yrs med mobo ing .
France 4 x Italy 2 x .
Just a mixed bag of request no two the same , we had doc a pack which inc the French permit d Mer ( 2005 version ) and some 90 s RYA tickets .
Never had a VAT proof test to my knowledge.
Had some kit checks in Fr no particular pattern . We were aware of there flair pack and Life raft date and fire extinguishers dates and complied even chucking out of date flairs which are a no no in Fr waters .
Once the signal mirror , bailing bucket and soft bungs for holes and even the air horn came out and we’re dusted down for viewing . To put some perspective this at an anchorage in the bay of Cannes with a 1000 boats in sight !

One time had a sniffer dog sniff around below and questioned wether we had been to N Africa recently.
This is mid August school hols with two kids under the age of 10 anchored in a Portofino 35 @ the Lerins islands off Cannes . I know the sergeant told them to crack down on substance abuse that day ….I guess ? Tick a few boxes and send the report up to Paris . Don’t know what “profiles “ they were using but our family was / is a million miles away from N African drug smugglers and drug use .


Italians just wanted to know the home port , insurance, not bothered about qualifications that time .
We had the orange ring ( an Italian thingy ) under the cockpit glass and anchor ball set .

A little arguably aggressive dog barking it’s head off made for short visits .


On a serious note it would be nice if there was a brief easy interpretation set of standards /rules that were universally enforced in the Med .

Did seem a bit ad hoc and random the requests at boarding .

 

[MapisM]

One time had a sniffer dog sniff around below

How cute!
Doesn't he/she complain for being now boatless?

 

[Portofino]

How cute!
Doesn't he/she complain for being now boatless?

Passed away last yr aged 17 .

Dog less opens up a wider choice of travel ( air ) and accommodation hotel wise .
Also a helava lot of car trips / rally’s . Eg May this yr we are circumventing Italy in a classic Ferrari spider ( cabriolet) ,taking 2-3 weeks to travel down one coast to a wedding in Puglia and rtn up the other ……rather looking Fwds to the drive part . I can and smile make polite conversation for 2 days during the wedding bit .

A few events in the U.K. in other cars .

July a “ Dino “ jaunt St Moritz 4 nights 50 cars from across the world will gather . We are off on day drives en mass around Austria , N Italy etc .

Ticino crossing ^


Current collection 2 X Ferrari , 2X Porsche and 1 Austin Healey .

CH being our European base . I shuttle them back / forth twixt U.K. Plus we have a place in Antibes so I still get a boat fix , but enjoy travelling by one of these , staying in find hotels over the alps to Antibes more than Antibes ( destination) itself .

Not missing the Itama …..Yet !

Your country had and arguably still HAS has an equally rich car culture as boats .

Additionally I run a couple of classic Spanish trials bikes a Montesa and Bultaco Indeed eventing this week end in the U.K. Yorkshire .Bully today Sat , and the Monty tomorrow Sun .

Good for balance ^ in a anti Alzheimer’s kinda way .

Then just had 2 months winter sports sking / boarding every day except WE s .

The vacuum of “ boatless “ has been well and truly filled .

 

[MapisM]

Impressive Dinos gathering!
Is yours a Pininfarina or a Bertone? And which colour?
The former is truly a masterpiece, but I'm among the (few) estimators also of the latter...

 

[kawasake]

Passed away last yr aged 17 .

Dog less opens up a wider choice of travel ( air ) and accommodation hotel wise .
Also a helava lot of car trips / rally’s . Eg May this yr we are circumventing Italy in a classic Ferrari spider ( cabriolet) ,taking 2-3 weeks to travel down one coast to a wedding in Puglia and rtn up the other ……rather looking Fwds to the drive part . I can and smile make polite conversation for 2 days during the wedding bit .

A few events in the U.K. in other cars .

July a “ Dino “ jaunt St Moritz 4 nights 50 cars from across the world will gather . We are off on day drives en mass around Austria , N Italy etc .
View attachment 191053
Ticino crossing ^


Current collection 2 X Ferrari , 2X Porsche and 1 Austin Healey .

CH being our European base . I shuttle them back / forth twixt U.K. Plus we have a place in Antibes so I still get a boat fix , but enjoy travelling by one of these , staying in find hotels over the alps to Antibes more than Antibes ( destination) itself .

Not missing the Itama …..Yet !

Your country had and arguably still HAS has an equally rich car culture as boats .

Additionally I run a couple of classic Spanish trials bikes a Montesa and Bultaco Indeed eventing this week end in the U.K. Yorkshire .Bully today Sat , and the Monty tomorrow Sun .
View attachment 191055
Good for balance ^ in a anti Alzheimer’s kinda way .

Then just had 2 months winter sports sking / boarding every day except WE s .

The vacuum of “ boatless “ has been well and truly filled .

Bloody Nora!
I’ve just bought a 200 Cota
Last rode one in in 79 when I was a Dealer for the Brand
My Lad was laughing at me today!
He’s using a mono water cooled Cota at the mo
I was knackered
Not from riding
From picking the bloody thing up!