MD2030 strange partially connected relay?

ithet

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I have a Beneteau 331 with MD2030D. I have noticed that there is a relay clipped to a wire behind the alternator. There is also an unconnected black wire connected to alternator B-, this might have come away while I was taking photos, although there is no sign of a connector for it. Adjacent to the relay is a not connected red and black that seems to be part of the original wiring loom, the red of which has been clipped up.

The relay looks like some addition and not the "earth relay" shown in the workshop manual. It has no connection on the 85 coil pin. Apart from maybe the black wire (which may or may not have become disconnected) this wiring is how it has been during the three years of my ownership.

So, any ideas what this relay is for? If I leave as is will my charging work OK when I relaunch?

Photos:
IMG_20190405_164108709.jpg IMG_20190405_164047293.jpg IMG_20190405_164507780.jpg
 

cmedsailor

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I had a Beneteau Oceanis 361 for 12 years (what a lovely boat), with the MD2030, that I recently sold in order to upgrade. Also had that relay which I never understood its purposes but I am not an electrician anyway!
The black cable is the earth wire of the alternator. It should attach at a bolt somewhere on the engine block (near the big bolt for the batteries earth wire). If not connected or if poorly connected (corrosion) it will cause all sort of crazy problems (I know this from first hand...!)


Edit: Some more photos (I think the first one was not very helpful)
 

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icarusbop

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I have a Beneteau 331 with MD2030D. I have noticed that there is a relay clipped to a wire behind the alternator. There is also an unconnected black wire connected to alternator B-, this might have come away while I was taking photos, although there is no sign of a connector for it. Adjacent to the relay is a not connected red and black that seems to be part of the original wiring loom, the red of which has been clipped up.

The relay looks like some addition and not the "earth relay" shown in the workshop manual. It has no connection on the 85 coil pin. Apart from maybe the black wire (which may or may not have become disconnected) this wiring is how it has been during the three years of my ownership.

So, any ideas what this relay is for? If I leave as is will my charging work OK when I relaunch?

Photos:
View attachment 77137 View attachment 77136 View attachment 77138

Hello:

From what I can see this relay will currently do nothing, the red wire comes from the alternator output, but the other side of the coil has no connection to -v as it is currently wired.

I suspect the stray black with no connector on it should go into the back of the relay with the other black, it was probably crimped into one of the connectors with the other black; so you would have had one connector with two blacks in it, which was 'daisy chained' to another short black with a connector on the end.

If it was connected as described above, the relay would have operated when the alternator is generating power, proving a 'switched ground' (0v) that was connected only when the engine was on (and the alternator creating +12v), the bare terminal of the relay would need another wire on it for the 'switched ground' to connect to.... something.

No idea what an earth relay as mentioned in your manual, might be for - unless it's something to do with a switched earth that is operated when the engine is in a particular state - do you have a picture of the wiring for the earth relay to post - it might help shed some light?
 

ithet

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Thanks for those answers. I can confirm the is another black wire to ground from the B-. I did assume the relay would not work as present. Sounds like it might have been deliberately disconnected, the PO did a lot of rearranging of the control panel wiring. Sounds like nothing that will affect the engine when we launch - tomorrow!
 

VicS

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Thanks for those answers. I can confirm the is another black wire to ground from the B-. I did assume the relay would not work as present. Sounds like it might have been deliberately disconnected, the PO did a lot of rearranging of the control panel wiring. Sounds like nothing that will affect the engine when we launch - tomorrow!

Goodness ( and perhaps the previous owner ) knows what the relay is supposed to do. Whatever it is it wont do it with the coil disconnected. You may find something now does not work, then you'll know otherwise you will have to follow the other wires to find out what it is connected to.

The D version of the engine should normally only have 2 relays. The start relay and the glow-plug relay, both of which are in the relay box.

Only the earliest versions, in which the engine is not electrically isolated from the transmission , have an earthing relay but that is a heavy duty thing similar in size and shape to the starter solenoid and capable of carrying the starter motor current. It is mounted on a bracket below the starter motor.
 

Heckler

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Goodness ( and perhaps the previous owner ) knows what the relay is supposed to do. Whatever it is it wont do it with the coil disconnected. You may find something now does not work, then you'll know otherwise you will have to follow the other wires to find out what it is connected to.

The D version of the engine should normally only have 2 relays. The start relay and the glow-plug relay, both of which are in the relay box.

Only the earliest versions, in which the engine is not electrically isolated from the transmission , have an earthing relay but that is a heavy duty thing similar in size and shape to the starter solenoid and capable of carrying the starter motor current. It is mounted on a bracket below the starter motor.
They were fitted to act as a switch for the anchor winch circuit so that it would only work when the engine was running
 

VicS

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They were fitted to act as a switch for the anchor winch circuit so that it would only work when the engine was running

Ithet's anchor winch isn't going to work with the relay coil disconnected. At least that will confirm the purpose of the relay.

A relay just danging in the wiring does not say much for Beneteau's standards.
 

Big John

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I have a Beneteau 331 with MD2030D. I have noticed that there is a relay clipped to a wire behind the alternator. There is also an unconnected black wire connected to alternator B-, this might have come away while I was taking photos, although there is no sign of a connector for it. Adjacent to the relay is a not connected red and black that seems to be part of the original wiring loom, the red of which has been clipped up.

The relay looks like some addition and not the "earth relay" shown in the workshop manual. It has no connection on the 85 coil pin. Apart from maybe the black wire (which may or may not have become disconnected) this wiring is how it has been during the three years of my ownership.

So, any ideas what this relay is for? If I leave as is will my charging work OK when I relaunch?

Photos:
View attachment 77137 View attachment 77136 View attachment 77138

Could it be a split charge relay? Badly installed.
 

alan

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Stu's suggestion is correct. They are fitted (primarily for charter boats!) to stop people running down the service battery(ies) by using the anchor windlass when the engine is off; that is, the anchor windlass will only work when the engine is running. On my previous boat (Oceanis 311) it switched the +12v to the windlass control box; on my current boat (Oceanis 343) it switches the ground to the windlass control box. They are made for Benetau by Scheiber, who very kindly sent me the data sheet. On the one fitted to my 343 there is a normally open contact , a normally closed contact and a common contact; by switching the output connector from the normally open contact to the normally closed contact this switch can be by-passed ................. or just cut off the whole lot and wire the ground (or positive) in the control box to the "large" ground (or positive).
I think they are designed to be used as a split charge relay (???).
Annoyingly Beneteau do not even describe the function of this relay and (of course) it is nothing to do with the engine electrics; my first Ben had a Volvo and I now have a Yanmar but this relay is a Beneteau addition!!
Alan.
View attachment 36.16257.10 - 36.16257.12.pdf
 

VicS

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Stu's suggestion is correct. They are fitted (primarily for charter boats!) to stop people running down the service battery(ies) by using the anchor windlass when the engine is off; that is, the anchor windlass will only work when the engine is running. On my previous boat (Oceanis 311) it switched the +12v to the windlass control box; on my current boat (Oceanis 343) it switches the ground to the windlass control box. They are made for Benetau by Scheiber, who very kindly sent me the data sheet. On the one fitted to my 343 there is a normally open contact , a normally closed contact and a common contact; by switching the output connector from the normally open contact to the normally closed contact this switch can be by-passed ................. or just cut off the whole lot and wire the ground (or positive) in the control box to the "large" ground (or positive).
I think they are designed to be used as a split charge relay (???).
Annoyingly Beneteau do not even describe the function of this relay and (of course) it is nothing to do with the engine electrics; my first Ben had a Volvo and I now have a Yanmar but this relay is a Beneteau addition!!
Alan.
View attachment 77145

What is pictured in #1 does not seem to be what you or the attached leaflet describe

 

alan

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I think it may be an older/simpler version of the same thing (but with the positive wire that goes to the windlass control box removed) .............. but I may be wrong!!

Alan.
 
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ithet

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Thanks for all the helpful replies.

They were fitted to act as a switch for the anchor winch circuit so that it would only work when the engine was running

From further research that would seem to be the case and were fitted to both French and US production boats. I found this forum:
http://seaknots.ning.com/group/beneteau4043/forum/topics/anchor-windlass-failure

Also a diagram in Beneteau 381 manual (p117):
http://www.boatlinkmalta.com/Beneteau-Oceanis-381/Beneteau%20Oceanis%20381%20Owners%20Manual.pdf

I suspect the stray black with no connector on it should go into the back of the relay with the other black, it was probably crimped into one of the connectors with the other black; so you would have had one connector with two blacks in it, which was 'daisy chained' to another short black with a connector on the end.

I have examined the black connectors and can see the wire strand remnants where it has come out.

On my previous boat (Oceanis 311) it switched the +12v to the windlass control box; on my current boat (Oceanis 343) it switches the ground to the windlass control box.
I am wondering ift the adjacent red/black wires (my photo no. 3), which look like part of the original loom, are to cater for either switching polarities (depending on windlass/control unit perhaps?). On my boat the red has been clipped up out the way. The black wire which may have once been connected is labelled G1.

As I am pretty sure that a) the relay was already disconnected and b) my windlass works without the motor running then either:

1) It was like this from new and not able to be connected to Leroy Sonnier control box I have.

2) It was bypassed at some time. This is possible as I have a record that the PO had problems with the windlass not working, and he requested it be looked at under the boat guarantee.
 

Heckler

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Stu's suggestion does sound likely .... possibly the relay has just been bypassed by the windlass low current circuit?

Richard
Indeed, a Dutch guy down the pontoon, he disconnected his when the relay went and jumped the terminals, only prob with that is as soon as the hi amp switch is switched on, the circuit is live. As for Beneteaus stds Vics, the wiring on the ones Ive seen, including mine, looks like an after market add on by the dealers?
 
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Heckler

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Thanks for all the helpful replies.



From further research that would seem to be the case and were fitted to both French and US production boats. I found this forum:
http://seaknots.ning.com/group/beneteau4043/forum/topics/anchor-windlass-failure

Also a diagram in Beneteau 381 manual (p117):
http://www.boatlinkmalta.com/Beneteau-Oceanis-381/Beneteau%20Oceanis%20381%20Owners%20Manual.pdf



I have examined the black connectors and can see the wire strand remnants where it has come out.


I am wondering ift the adjacent red/black wires (my photo no. 3), which look like part of the original loom, are to cater for either switching polarities (depending on windlass/control unit perhaps?). On my boat the red has been clipped up out the way. The black wire which may have once been connected is labelled G1.

As I am pretty sure that a) the relay was already disconnected and b) my windlass works without the motor running then either:

1) It was like this from new and not able to be connected to Leroy Sonnier control box I have.

2) It was bypassed at some time. This is possible as I have a record that the PO had problems with the windlass not working, and he requested it be looked at under the boat guarantee.
The relay acts as a switch to the lo voltage circuit in the Leroy Somer control box. Mine is under the front bed boards, undo the four screws on the LS control box and there is also a low voltage fuse there (guess how I know) If it is frigged which I suspect it is from your description, be aware that the winch is then live if the main over amp safety breaker is latched! Imagine that control box getting damp inside or suchlike and then deciding to go full chat on its own! The relay is a bog std automotive one and worth getting working. Also check the inside of the LS box and see if that fuse hasnt blown!
 

Heckler

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What is pictured in #1 does not seem to be what you or the attached leaflet describe


Thats what mine looks like, the power to the operate relay comes from the alternator so that it only latches when the alternator outputs.
 

VicS

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Thats what mine looks like, the power to the operate relay comes from the alternator so that it only latches when the alternator outputs.

Very surprised that it's just dangling in the wiring like that ... Very poor ... but I suppose that's. French engineering for you ....... Like my damned Renault car! (Wife's choice but now mine.)

The diagram in the manual, page 109 ( link in # 14) shows the relay connected to the charge warning light terminal of the alternator which, ITYWF, is the output from the field diodes ( not the main output terminal, which would energise it as soon as the battery isolator is closed)

The relay switches the negative supply to the windlass controller.
 

ithet

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I will check and trace the connections at the winch control box, which is over the forecabin berths.

Vic, the relay is quite well attached by cable tie!
 

Heckler

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I will check and trace the connections at the winch control box, which is over the forecabin berths.

Vic, the relay is quite well attached by cable tie!
Mine is as well from since Ive had the boat. My connection is from the warning light connection..
 
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