MCA/RYA ML5 Colour blindness red/green

[Chris-Craft]

Hi All,

I appreciate there has been a previous post about this subject but it was a few years ago now and I would be grateful for an up to date opinion.

I had my ML5 medical for the commercial endorsement for Yachtmaster Coastal, which I passed in July this year. The medical went fine but I struggled very slightly with the Ishihara colour blindness test, in fact only got one thing wrong which was identifying one green otherwise it was fine. The doctor made the following comments on the form and has to now refer to the MCA for a decision:

'...mild colour blindness based on Ishihara scale. I don't believe this should impact on duties listed in Part B. Difficulty distinguishing red/green/brown. No problem with clear shades of these colours.'

I'm now fully expecting the MCA to respond to the Doctor requesting a Lantern test, is this likely or do you think the comments from the Doctor will be acceptable for the MCA to issue the certificate?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Uricanejack]

Hi All,

I appreciate there has been a previous post about this subject but it was a few years ago now and I would be grateful for an up to date opinion.

I had my ML5 medical for the commercial endorsement for Yachtmaster Coastal, which I passed in July this year. The medical went fine but I struggled very slightly with the Ishihara colour blindness test, in fact only got one thing wrong which was identifying one green otherwise it was fine. The doctor made the following comments on the form and has to now refer to the MCA for a decision:

'...mild colour blindness based on Ishihara scale. I don't believe this should impact on duties listed in Part B. Difficulty distinguishing red/green/brown. No problem with clear shades of these colours.'

I'm now fully expecting the MCA to respond to the Doctor requesting a Lantern test, is this likely or do you think the comments from the Doctor will be acceptable for the MCA to issue the certificate?

Thanks in advance!

The MCA will accept the lantern test. You have to be able to disinguish between red and green. other rare types of color blind ness are aceptable ie blue green. If you can pass the lantern test. The Lantern test is not a test of color blind.

The color blind test is part of every marine medical .why? who knows. You don't become color blind with age.

 

[snowleopard]

I took the YM exam back in the Board of Trade days. It included a lantern test where I was shown pairs of lights and asked to say if each was red/green/white. I remember hearing from a colour blind merchant officer that he managed all right in the days when they used oil lamps as he could see differences in brightness but when they switched to electric he was stumped. I have seen a gadget in some nautical catalogues which consists of a pair of red & green filters that you can hold in front of a light to tell what colour it is e.g. the red filter shows a red or white light but blacks out a green light. Maybe a pair of glasses with one red lens and one green would work by blinking alternate eyes. I don't know whether that would be considered legal but the tests are conducted in the dark....

 

[jerrytug]

Hi All,

I appreciate there has been a previous post about this subject but it was a few years ago now and I would be grateful for an up to date opinion.

I had my ML5 medical for the commercial endorsement for Yachtmaster Coastal, which I passed in July this year. The medical went fine but I struggled very slightly with the Ishihara colour blindness test, in fact only got one thing wrong which was identifying one green otherwise it was fine. The doctor made the following comments on the form and has to now refer to the MCA for a decision:

'...mild colour blindness based on Ishihara scale. I don't believe this should impact on duties listed in Part B. Difficulty distinguishing red/green/brown. No problem with clear shades of these colours.'

I'm now fully expecting the MCA to respond to the Doctor requesting a Lantern test, is this likely or do you think the comments from the Doctor will be acceptable for the MCA to issue the certificate?

Thanks in advance!

If you are marginal with Ishihara you will probably pass the Lantern, it's free (at least in Southampton) and the guy is experienced and sympathetic.
Lots of GP's, including MCA registered ones, get the Ishihara done by a nurse, in artificial light. Please note it is specifically designed to be done in broad daylight, and the results will be wrong if done by a receptionist's table lamp.
The Lantern Test is valid for life and they give you a ticket so you can swerve the Ishihara on future ML5's/ ENG1's.

I found all this out when I nearly lost a job due to failing an Ishihara in artificial light, cheers Jerry.

 

[bikedaft]

If you are marginal with Ishihara you will probably pass the Lantern, it's free (at least in Southampton) and the guy is experienced and sympathetic.
Lots of GP's, including MCA registered ones, get the Ishihara done by a nurse, in artificial light. Please note it is specifically designed to be done in broad daylight, and the results will be wrong if done by a receptionist's table lamp.
The Lantern Test is valid for life and they give you a ticket so you can swerve the Ishihara on future ML5's/ ENG1's.

I found all this out when I nearly lost a job due to failing an Ishihara in artificial light, cheers Jerry.

V interesting thanks.

 

[Chris-Craft]

If you are marginal with Ishihara you will probably pass the Lantern, it's free (at least in Southampton) and the guy is experienced and sympathetic.
Lots of GP's, including MCA registered ones, get the Ishihara done by a nurse, in artificial light. Please note it is specifically designed to be done in broad daylight, and the results will be wrong if done by a receptionist's table lamp.
The Lantern Test is valid for life and they give you a ticket so you can swerve the Ishihara on future ML5's/ ENG1's.

I found all this out when I nearly lost a job due to failing an Ishihara in artificial light, cheers Jerry.

Thank you! Yes it was taken within the doctors surgery with blinds closed so no natural daylight at all, only the surgery lights on. I didn't know the difference at the time nor the accurate way to carry out the test. The doctor has sent my ML5 to the RYA for them to send on to the MCA for a medical assessor to review. I can only wait, no doubt a few weeks, for a reply....

 

[Chris-Craft]

Hi All,

I appreciate there has been a previous post about this subject but it was a few years ago now and I would be grateful for an up to date opinion.

I had my ML5 medical for the commercial endorsement for Yachtmaster Coastal, which I passed in July this year. The medical went fine but I struggled very slightly with the Ishihara colour blindness test, in fact only got one thing wrong which was identifying one green otherwise it was fine. The doctor made the following comments on the form and has to now refer to the MCA for a decision:

'...mild colour blindness based on Ishihara scale. I don't believe this should impact on duties listed in Part B. Difficulty distinguishing red/green/brown. No problem with clear shades of these colours.'

I'm now fully expecting the MCA to respond to the Doctor requesting a Lantern test, is this likely or do you think the comments from the Doctor will be acceptable for the MCA to issue the certificate?

Thanks in advance!

Just thought I'd update you on the outcome. Today the RYA replied on behalf of the MCA who seem me fit to have the commercial endorsement however with 'no solo lookout at night' due to the colourblindness. I'm quietly happy about this so now to complete the PPR and get my licence endorsed.

 

[Woodlouse]

Just thought I'd update you on the outcome. Today the RYA replied on behalf of the MCA who seem me fit to have the commercial endorsement however with 'no solo lookout at night' due to the colourblindness. I'm quietly happy about this so now to complete the PPR and get my licence endorsed.

If you can differentiate red and green lights I'd suggest you do a lantern test at least when your commercial endorsement is up for renewal in five years time. There's little point in having the no solo night watch condition on your ticket if it's not really necessary.

 

[Leighb]

Please note it is specifically designed to be done in broad daylight, and the results will be wrong if done by a receptionist's table lamp.

It is a goodly while since I retired, but AFAIK it is strictly meant to be used only in natural north light, i.e. uncontaminated by direct sunlight.

The other comments are correct, should def'ly not be carried out under artificial light, tungsten or mercury vapour, as these shift the colour balance hugely.

 

[nigelmercier]

There are a few CB iApps. The colour rendition of an Apple screen (which is about as good as you can get) is calibrated into them. I got one after my wife appeared to be marginally CB, which is rare.

 

[macd]

Test lighting conditions:
The test area should have either a natural north sky illumination (in the northern hemisphere), or artificial natural daylight fluorescent illumination, ie standard source C lighting. The light source should provide a minimum of 200 lux at the surface of the test for young subjects. However, the City University test (Third edition) recommends a level of about 600 lux for adults and increased values for those over 50. Ideally, the light source should be at an angle of 45° above the plate surface. It should be noted that daylight lamps may only hold the stated level of illumination for approximately six months, after which they deteriorate. Tungsten lighting is unsuitable.

From relevant HSE Guidance Note: http://www.aop.org.uk/uploads/vision-standards-2013/hse_colour_vision_examination_october_2005.pdf

 

[Chris-Craft]

Test lighting conditions:
The test area should have either a natural north sky illumination (in the northern hemisphere), or artificial natural daylight fluorescent illumination, ie standard source C lighting. The light source should provide a minimum of 200 lux at the surface of the test for young subjects. However, the City University test (Third edition) recommends a level of about 600 lux for adults and increased values for those over 50. Ideally, the light source should be at an angle of 45° above the plate surface. It should be noted that daylight lamps may only hold the stated level of illumination for approximately six months, after which they deteriorate. Tungsten lighting is unsuitable.

From relevant HSE Guidance Note: http://www.aop.org.uk/uploads/vision-standards-2013/hse_colour_vision_examination_october_2005.pdf

My Ishihara CB test was carried out in a doctor surgery with the blinds closed under only hallogen lights. I didn't know the lighting rules nor anything about the Ishihara test despite knowing I am R/G colourblind.

I also expected the Mca to request a lantern test which I've not set before so not sure what the outcome would be for me. Has anyone else in my situation say this and found it to be easy to distinguish the different colour lights?

I'm unlikely to be skipper of passenger ferries etc only skipper charter yachts in the med so this No solo watch at night shouldn't cause a problem however would I prefer a clean licence, of course.

 

[nigelmercier]

Has anyone else in my situation say this and found it to be easy to distinguish the different colour lights?...

I have normal colour vision, and even I find it hard to do at a distance.

 

[duncan99210]

I did the lantern test for my Army medical years ago now. I found it easy enough to distinguish the colours despite being red green colour blind. That said, whilst I find it easy to tell red from green from white when seen together, I do have difficulty in telling green from white if there is no comparison light. What I mean is if there is only one light, I can tell if it's red no trouble but I would struggle to tell you if it's green or white. No problem most of the time but sectored lights can be fun. But that's what SWMBO is for.....

 

[langstonelayabout]

I found all this out when I nearly lost a job due to failing an Ishihara in artificial light, cheers Jerry.

Blimey - how many times have I failed an Ishihara test in a surgery??? This is food for thought (But yes, I'm colour blind anyway and, yes, it has limited my engineering career)